T Nation

Does Prayer Work II


#1

I made a previous post expressing my extrme doubt on prayer or in a God. I now have to take that back. Back in March I applied for unemployment and was denied. I appealed and after 2 months or more of prayer and waiting, I got approved for my unemployment enefits which means they owe me over $3000 in back pay. I know their may be a logical explanation, but I attribute this to prayer to my God.


#2

I'm a bit confused. If one correlation of prayer and an effect was enough to convince you in the first place, why did it matter that that correlation be personal for you? What I mean is why didn't you just accept others first person accounts of correlation between prayer and results, why did you need your own? A second question is, will a negative correlation in the future make you change your mind? If not, why not?

I know you admitted your reasoning is irrational, but this is a bit silly, no?


#3

Classic logical fallacy. Just because X precedes Y doesn't imply that X caused Y. By the same logic, I could conclude that the rising of the sun causes me to workout in the morning. My workouts nearly always follow the rising of the sun, after all.


#4

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.


#5

Its nothing like a first hand experience. And thats with anything. Someone else can say i prayed for something and it came to past. To me, it just left me wondering "Well thats good for you but what about me?" If im hungry, watching you eat isnt going to satisfy MY hunger. Thats why it had to be personal for me.


#6

I knew someone would say this and i even thought about it myself. But its not meant to follow logic as i have learned, but its meant to follow faith. I full well know in this situation that there's easily a logical explanation.


#7

If there's a logical explanation, why would you choose an illogical explanation instead? From your earlier posts, I thought you were more interested in what really is true than in what you might want to be true.


#8

That was my point though, you are letting an emotional reaction that has nothing to do with truth dictate what you think. Being rational, if one correlation was enough to sway you, it should have been enough hearing about one correlation from someone else. The fact that a personal situation swayed you simply says you are making some sort of irrational emotional judgment.

Also, claiming that your new found faith or belief makes the irrational source of that faith or belief any less silly is dumb.

I respect people with faith, but in many ways the sort of "faith" you're talking about it silly. You seem to be saying that you have faith because God seemingly does something for you. Faith is suppose to be out of love for God, not because God passed some test you devised for him.


#9

Religion is bullshit


#10

I respect people with faith, but in many ways the sort of "faith" you're talking about it silly. You seem to be saying that you have faith because God seemingly does something for you. Faith is suppose to be out of love for God, not because God passed some test you devised for him. [/quote]

I realized that and it wasnt until I first had faith that things began to happen. I had it wrong wanting God to prove something to me. First you believe and then he sends assurance. I, like most people had it backwards.

Its not that I devised a test and he passed it.


#11

Hands up who saw this coming?


#12

What's the definition of religion?


#13

I did, because I knew he would see the light.


#14

So what happens next time you pray and nada happens?

Are you going to admit it, or are you hopping onto the religious hamster wheel?

Because you see, they have it down pat. Pray:

1) If it happens, it MUST be because god did it!

2) If it doesn't happen, it MUST be because god didn't want it to happen!

Of course, it's impossible that praying has zilch to do with whether something actually happens or not :wink:


#15

His family will be happy and there'll be less arguing and fighting all around.

Leave the poor kid be.


#16

Seconded.


#17

Just so you don't let the logic mix with the faith- they seem to be like oil and water in your mind.


#18

Your point is well taken. It is scary though to think that this same sort of thought process leads people to conclusions on national issues, no? I mean, in this case we're just talking about someone's belief in God.

People though go and use that belief in God to justify their positions on all sorts of national issues, while sometimes even directly applying this sort of "because I feel it" reasoning to their positions.

Anyway, to some extend I think we as a democratic society have a right to demand higher standards from our fellow citizens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I think your average atheist has any better decision making and reasoning skills.


#19

Praying obviously doesn't work, I prayed long and hard that this thread would not come back.


#20

Try increasing your faith to the size of a mustard seed, Cockney.