T Nation

Does Inhibited DHT Conversion + Inhibited Estroidal Conversion = More Free T?

to me it makes sense SBGH increase a little, just because you deny DHT to form. That’s balance.
Secondly, you can help your thiroid have a little boost up, guggulsterons, forskolin and L-tyrosin can help you

SBGH can be lowered. Aromasin and proviron can help you but it depends on your choices. Consider Aromasin will affect blood lipids and you need to trigger the dosage so that you do not lower estrogens too much

I wonder if my taking of Salbutamol can negatively affect my thyroid.

I’ll look into these supplements. I’ve seen a couple articles warning about L-Tyrosine hurting thyroid production but its hard to tell if their advice is warranted.

Thanks for feedback.

I did some reading up on Aromasin. Looks like it reduce SHBG around 20% which can raise free T significantly. So, seems like a much better option than the A-dex I’m curreny using.

I am a natty so my E2 isn’t out of control but was around 35 before starting on .25 mg Adex E3D. My E2 recently tested at 11 so that Adex dosage is probably a bit much.

I would have to find out how much Aromasin I would need to take to reduce E2 by around 30%. That would take my natural production from around 35 to around 20 where I want it. I am taking finasteride too so that has to be considered.

I had some blood work done recently. Some might say it’s a coincidence but I am inclined to answer my initial question for this thread with a “YES”… Inhibited DHT conversion + inhibited E2 conversion does = more free testosterone… if SHBG is lowered as well.

I’m not on any anabolics. I’m taking .5 mg finasteride ED (to reduce DHT), 3mg Aromasin every 4 days (to reduce E2), and Longjack and Boron to reduce SHBG.

Finasteride Warning!!

I started shedding hair and was prescribed Finasteride.

After taking it for 18 months it grew most of my hair back but then I started to get so many sides . Main ones were erectile problems , soft erections and seriously reduced ejeculation load and a fuzzy foggy feeling all day long.

I stopped taking for a year and most of regrown hair fell out so I started back on the treatment but this time the sides came back after just 3 months and even worst than before.

It took over a year of discontinued use for sides to eventually go.

That was over 5 years ago . I now use the following regime and hair doesn’t fall out at all:

Mon/wed/fri - 5 minutes nizorl soak
Every day - 1ml minoxidil applied before bed

I can see you’re trying to prevent the sides by taking arimidex (a breast cancer drug) but what you’re suggesting is like trying to kill a mosquito with a nuclear weapon.

There are better and less harmful ways to keep your hair and much safer ways to increase free testosterone.

Finasteride works and maybe you can tolerate and control the sides but in my opinion and experience the risks are just not worth it.

I would rather go bald than take that stuff ever again.

Have you noticed any hair regrow on the protocol your using or does it just stop further loss?

If hair root is still there it will regrow given enough time.

On minoxidil the hairs don’t grow nearly as quickly or as thickly as finasteride but I have pretty much kept a full head of hair while my brother who is 7 years younger and father are now both bald. I’m 42 so managed to catch it in time.

I started TRT 18 months ago and was worried about hair shedding again due to increase in DHT but it has been absolutely fine on 250mg Test-E p/w. I also take arimidex tablets occasionally to keep E levels at bay but doctor doesn’t like me taking them all the time - says arimidex can cause osteoporosis with long term use.

Some things I noticed over the years:

  1. When head gets itchy and tingly means roots are inflamed/dying.

Wet hair and apply small amount of Nizoral and leave on for 5-10 minutes to keep itching/tingling at bay for a couple of days. (Hence the Mon/Wed/Fri routine)

  1. For me Minoxidil causes increase in body and facial hair growth. I welcome this as I’m not too hairy and growth of extra little fine hairs has made beard become fuller. Especially when applied twice per day.

  2. For me Finasteride caused decrease in body hair and slight gyno. Felt less masculine / had less aggression at the gym.

Overall , while I loved the hair regrowth on finasteride I hated the sides such as soft erections, fuzzy/foggy head and less aggression. Personally I wouldn’t touch finasteride again.

Minoxidil doesn’t work for everyone and some people have sides on that too.

Nizoral prevents inflammation at the hair root which stops the root from dying.

@gunk
Are you still doing the above protocol of 0.5mg finasteride plus 3mg aromasin every 4 days? Did you take separate shbg tests to see if boron (how much) and longjack (how much) work for you above the aromasin?

Not exactly. Im taking about 1.7 mg Fin daily (5mg pill split in 3.
Taking Boron and Tongkat Ali can be good if SARMS are not an issue. SARMS lowers SHBG significantly.

This may because of testing SARMS which suppresses natural T production so there would be less T to convert to E2.

I raised my Fin dosage as I was continuing to see hairloss. I believe I am seeing some new growth since starting Minoxidil.

I take Minoxidil twice a day. I monitor my E2 levels and take Arom as needed but haven’t had to for a long time.

Thanks for the quick answer!

So you have chosen to go on a different path and instead of boosting your natural T production, you have chosen to run a sarm, and cope with some suppression instead?

Are you running this continiously like a trt? Which sarm have you chosen and at what dose? Is there an impact on your HDL?

Testing showed that lgd at 10mg/day suppressed T over 60% after just 3 weeks. Clomid administration of 25mg/eod raised and maintained T levels within 15% of pre-cycle bloods after 2-3 weeks of use. This continued till 4 weeks after last use of lgd. 5 weeks after last Clomid use, naturally T production is 10% higher than pre cycle.

LDL cholesterol rose above the standard limits established with blood tests during cycle. It fell back to normal 5 weeks after conclusion of cycle. HDL remained in normal range

Thanks again,

Regarding lipids:
LDL rose above standard limits, right?

HDL usually goes below the limits and comes back up after cessation of use.

Any particular reason you gave up on boosting your own production with aromasin? Were the bodybuilding results there with a high enough free test number?

I edited post. HDL was fine. LDL rose.

Arom will drop E2 too far if not taken carefully. When E2 hit 20 I stopped.

Did you have low E2 symptoms at 20 or you just stopped because of the number?

At what dose did you hit 20 and do you remember what your freeT was at that dose?

Thanks!

The specifics in my experiment will not translate directly to you. You need to understand how T DHT E2 SHBG work.

You will have to monitor E2 closely and make adjustments.

Bloods get expensive to run frequently, just wasn’t worth it to me. Gaining 10-20% extra T than your normal natural limit doesn’t really do much in the real world. Might help in a cut more but it’s not going to make you grow faster than normal.

It’s really nice of you to point this out, and I also find it important that anyone that reads this understands this clearly. If anyone is considering an AI monoteraphy for testosterone boosting purposes, they have to know that this needs to be titrated individually based on your own blood levels only, not based on doses used by others you read on the internet.

The reason I asked if you remembered the aromasin dose you hit 20 with, and your freeT dose at the time instead, is I was curious how far you went from the 3mg E4D you started with, or if you just stayed at the same dose and your E2 went to 20 after a while.

I’d like to also note that your free test was 19.9 ng/dl on 3mg E4D of aromasin, which is 199 pg/mL. Now if you compare that to the table 2 on page 4 of this study:


You’ll see that number is well above the 300mg/week Test-e group, because they had 133 pg/mL.

So your freeT levels on 3mg aromasin E4D are approaching someone on a 400mg/week Test-e cycle.

Now what I’d also like to point out is that on the same page, table 3 you’ll see that people in the 300mg/week group gained an average of 5.2kg (~12lbs) of lean mass in 20 weeks WITHOUT excercise.

Also based on anecdotal evidence eg what you can read on forums people do seem to be gaining muscle and strength on 400mg/week of Test-e.