Does Hypertrophy Come Faster When You Have a Strength Foundation?

I THINK it’s why Layne Norton got hurt.

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Right when I was about to quote the end sentence this popped up. @BrickHead I would only add that one would need to maintain mobility and stability work, know their body well enough to know when to hold back/go for weights, and take care of themselves inside and out to accomplish it.

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I honestly don’t know anything about Layne Norton to be able to say one way or the other.

With Norton, his squat is one loose breath from a fucked up back. I know he’s been doing it for years and knows his body, but that is the craziest squat morning I’ve ever seen

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And so it seems to be the case with most of the “evidence” guys. Granted, I believe that there is slight validity to applying studies to your training, but to tout the findings of several studies on rank beginners as the end-all be-all to training for muscle growth, when historically other methods (ala body part splits) have worked, creates a huge discord, I believe, as it can “freeze” beginner bodybuilders as they become obsessed with the evidence/studies and seemingly disregard the clues that success has left. Just my .02.

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Who says you can’t chase numbers using bro splits? In fact, there’s nothing wrong with chasing numbers on compound movements. Lee Haney called these the “Power Exercises”. He would do the bench first, then use dumbbells with a focus on contracting mainly the chest. Chasing numbers also ensures that you are putting in the required effort when performing each set. The problem comes when people start doing things, for example, like contorting their bodies to get an extreme arch in the bench or performing their squats with too much hip involvement.

The biggest problem is that people think in extremes. It’s always either “strength training” with low reps, few movements and no isolations or “hypertrophy training” with a nonsensical amount of volume with girly weights and only chasing the pump.

There really should be constant strength progression at your level. Muscle growth will increase strength, which will naturally increase the weight on the bar. What noobs get wrong is that they have this concept backwards. They think they need to do a program that peaks limit strength to increase the weight lifted because more weight lifted results in more hypertrophy.

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Yup. I have to add that no one is ignoring science here. It’s just that we have very little compelling research on this subject while people have been getting big and strong for decades. It takes a great amount of arrogance to assume that everyone who has done this were doing it wrong and got results in spite of what they did.

I do not know much about the sports/medical field, but I sometimes have to purchase market research on consumer behavior or engage a firm doing this on behalf of clients. These can cost up to millions from big companies and at least high 5 figures from small companies depending on the scope of the project. They are usually VERY accurate because the best in the field are involved and are paid a lot of money. There’s also a shitload of it that has been reviewed, tested and improved upon based on real life results from their application over the years. Just 10 years ago, these cost less than half of the current prices and were nowhere near as accurate as now. Lots of firms aren’t operating anymore because they didn’t produce results. It’s a very simple case of cause and effect based on profit and loss. Great sales pitches couldn’t save them. Wow, you have a guy with a phd on your team? This other firm has 3 with years of experience and results.

In the fitness industry, there are people with delusions of grandeur who do emg studies on themselves in their basement and publish a research paper with a handful of peer reviews from their buddies. Then you have one guy declaring hypertrophy is systemic based on one study which never gave any indication whatsoever that hypertrophy is, indeed, systemic and it’s shared all over Internetland with people parroting his unfounded conclusion without even reading the study. It’s really not easy to take these things seriously.

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THIS

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Blockquote The problem comes when people start doing things, for example, like contorting their bodies to get an extreme arch in the bench or performing their squats with too much hip involvement.

The biggest problem is that people think in extremes. It’s always either “strength training” with low reps, few movements and no isolations or “hypertrophy training” with a nonsensical amount of volume with girly weights and only chasing the pump.

And I guess there in lies my problem. The whole concept of extremes, it is either one or the other. As well as the idea that if I am getting stronger then I MUST be getting bigger, when in actuality that is not always the case. Just a mental hurdle I have to get over. Thank you for your input!

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Don’t get me wrong. You may have to do extreme things in terms of training and diet to push your limits and achieve results that very few among the training population will ever achieve. The problem is that your decision making process was based on a faulty premise in the first place. Understand the flaws in the premise and replace them with correct ones and there won’t be any mental hurdles to overcome.

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Golden posts you have here.

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Correct my logic if its wrong… but if more strength = more muscle, wouldn’t your hypertrophy efforts speed up the more you trained? In other words, the idea of “newbie gains” is actually backwards and in fact you would need to train to the point where you could get to your “old man gains” where you could really start adding muscle.

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Yah that’s exactly how it works. That’s why all the huge, jacked guys you see are old. You are probably just months away from hitting your ‘old man gains’ Lonnie :wink:

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Lets hope so… That actually would be amazingly awesome to have put in these last 15 years (gulp… cant believe that) and then have my gains kick into over drive now that I’ve laid all that ground work.

Building muscle is the exact opposite of compound interest. Starts off great then you are just waiting forever for that 1% gain

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I actually just re-read my post and thought it comes off a bit cheeky, so I’m glad you took it well, as was intended.

Even after the comparatively small amount of time I have been lifting and enhancing my physique, I can see things have slowed down a fair bit. To me it is no longer about being huge or shredded or vascular, it is more about improving yourself daily and developing your character.

I also find it much easier to be healthy (more veges, less booze, more sleep etc) when I am physically working out or working towards a goal.

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@Irishman92 I think you and @Lonnie123 nailed it to be honest. Completely agree with you in terms of finding it easier to live healthy when I’m training.

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I’m the exact same. If I’m not in the gym it’s all booze, pizza, drugs, etc.

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No no, Brick you hit the nail directly on the head with that observation. I too, have noticed this fascination with training from across the seas and more so Russian training than anything else. I have no problem with it, but I do not think the majority of powerlifters need to be forcing themselves to do these types of training styles , espeacially ones in my age range, and tearing themselves apart trying to keep up with insane amounts of volume and frequency. There’s just something about linear periodization, that I can’t quite put my finger on just yet.

Louie wants you to build hypertrophy, strength and speed at the same time. That’s the purpose of conjugate.

People miss the overall goal, and focus on the “methods.” If you let the method get in front of the purpose, you’re messing up.

Rule #1, if it doesn’t make you better, don’t do it!

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I agree. I also don’t think people do these programs for a long enough period of time to adapt to it.