Does Hypertrophy Come Faster When You Have a Strength Foundation?

Ok, now we’re getting back in line with the discussion.

If dude on top is gonna slam you when you stand up, DONT STAND UP! Work that sit turn, sit turn out, switch progression.

In the gym, work on what you need to work on. Don’t develop a training “style” so specific that it leaves you with “holes.” Don’t just do so many compound lifts you smash your joints. Don’t just do some many dumbbell flies you stay super weak. Don’t ignore conditioning to the point where your lifting suffers cause you’re always out of breath. Don’t jog so far you’re too tired to squat.

Use your noodle, and develop what ever needs to be developed.

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You mean compound movements, not “full body movements”, right? Compound movements use more than one muscle group (like presses, rows, squats). Full body movements would use the full body (like the Olympic lifts, and maybe just one or two other exercises).

Best bang for your buck will be to use compounds lifts and isolation work, not either/or. But exercise selection is, like, the third or fourth decision when designing a program. It’s not the top priority. Set the program’s goal, determine the training frequency/volume/intensity that suits the goal, setup a set/rep/load scheme that efficiently works toward the goal, then plug in exercises that are best suited for the frequency, load, and volume.

The guy who can lift 2/3/4 for sets of 10 will get bigger the fastest. Whether that’s by getting to 3/4/5 so that 2/3/4 is light, or by starting at 1/2/3x15 and working from there, doesn’t matter a ton in the long-term because both methods work.

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Because the internet somehow came up with the absurd logic that you need to train for strength, then when you are strong, you can finally train for hypertrophy by pumping up the muscle with the heavier weights you are able to use at that time. Prior to that, the weights you could use were not heavy enough to stimulate hypertrophy and when you train for hypertrophy, you won’t get stronger.

Oh, and training for hypertrophy = solely pump training nowadays

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Bing bing bing!

-While getting stronger is one method of progressive improvement, it’s not the only one.

-Relative weight, or perceived weight is what really triggers adaptation. One individual might strain harder against 100 lbs than another would against 200. Who do you think is going to reap more benefits from their efforts?

-People intent on muscle gains should listen to bodybuilding coaches and not powerlifting coaches who don’t even look like bodybuilders.

S

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Yup. This is common sense. It’s something we probably knew at the back of our heads even before ever picking up a weight. Then the internet somehow managed to convince people otherwise.

The last time I wrote about the effort expended/strain during a set being the main cause of growth, some guy with some kind of sports science degree asked me for a SOURCE. It was right here. I kid you not.

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Well duh. You’re obviously wrong. My muscles have built in scales. Don’t yours?

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Oh yeah, mine are so accurate they can measure micro plates.

Pssh, mine can tell calibrated micro plates from non calibrated micro plates.

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I hope so

Mine has a built in thingy that can tell what exercise its doing.

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Meh. How hard can that be? You’re only doing 3 lifts.

Its like this- If I’m doing pull-ups the biceps are like “Yeah! Pull-ups!” and they get huge. But if I’m doing some type of curl, its all “Nope. No growth for you!”.

Snarky muscles. :frowning_face:

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It is all about the pump baby!!! :wink:

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I don’t know of anyone who solely uses isolation work to be honest. Even the guys in my gym that follow questionable programming and use pretty poor form seem to at least try and throw some rows in to balance their benching and maybe do some half hearted rack pulls or squats. Dunno where this myth of the pump chasing isolation freaks came from…

Internetland.

The only place in the world where fullbody 5x5 fanboys end up stronger than big, muscular guys after 6 months of training.

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i have always found it funny how getting bigger and stronger has morphed into two different concepts in regards to training.

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I always find that the description of these muscular unicorns that are prancing about every commercial gym sounds similar to the description of your anatomy that your significant other gives their friends.

“The guy is big, like 280lbs and walking around at 2% bodyfat. I once saw him eat an African Bull elephant before doing some 10lbs concentration curls”

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Also, somewhere along the line, people wanting to be bodybuilders became fascinated with powerlifters. In the late 90’s and early 2000’s a popular internet guru–a nice guy I believe, but is looked upon as some sort of genius even though he says and does some goofy stuff–stated several times that powerlifters who crossed over to bodybuilding smoked their competitions. Who he was referring to, nobody knows.

Then some nerds came on the scene and started to incessantly talk about protein synthesis and stated that because protein synthesis in a muscle takes place for 48 to 72 hours versus the proteins synthesis that is extended for time with anabolic drugs, naturals should train each muscle group twice per week at the minimum. So full body programs and upper-lower splits, which are not inherently bad and actually needed for other goals or training situations, became the mainstay recommendation for naturals. This, coupled with the notion that one should earn their strength bones or go through “strength phases” because after improving their relative strength, they would return to typical bodybuilding programs being able to handle bigger poundages versus what could’ve been done had they not gone through such phases.

It seemed very few people, including myself, didn’t use common sense and think to themselves, “Wait… no one recommending this shit has competed or done well in bodybuilding or looks or has looked like a bodybuilder!”

Even guys with programs that never intended for people to use them for bodybuilding-purist goals have people using them for such purposes, only for them to come on a forum like this and say, “I was doing _____ for some time,” but I don’t look like a bodybuilder. Granted, one can get pretty big on damn near any strength program, but to get everything popping, I believe the vast majority of people wanting to look like bodybuilders need a serious bodybuilding program.

A similar thing happened in powerlifting that I noticed, even though I have only read about powerlifting programs but did not participate. If any powerlifter reads this and I have things wrong, please point it out. But here it goes. We had great powerlifters and bench press specialists here, training with linear periodization and largely bodybuilding methods for everything but the competitive lifts and a few lifts that some powerlifters for which a linear scheme was appropriate (e.g., close grip bench press, military press).

Then Louie Simmons’ methods started being popularized on the net, with the aid of Dave Tate, with a subsequent fascination with European strength training methods. So seemingly everyone started going buck wild with bench, dead, and squat variations, chains, bands, speed work, and so on. We often read about Dave Tate and his earlier injuries and how he met Louie at a meet at which he said something like, “If you keep training like that (linear periodization), you’re going to wind up hurt and not be able to compete,” or something like that. People seemed to gloss over that both these men seemed to be constantly injured anyway and that the very best did not do as they recommended. Not only that, but some powerlifters reported their training stagnated or went backwards despite such seemingly novel training technology and methods (Dan Greene for one).

Others went batshit crazy with frequency, squatting, deadlifting, and benching three or more times per week , again, ignoring that some of the best, never tampered with high frequency on the big lifts and only performed them once per week. This lead to some people getting thoroughly busted.

And so it goes with bodybuilding. People searching for something, trying unorthodox methods, and then realizing they went in a circle!

Again, for any powerlifters who noticed if I got anything wrong in my observation, feel free to point it out and correct me. I followed powerlifters because I was amazed by some.

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I don’t think people glossed over this; Westside was more renoun for holding a significant amount of total records across various weight classes, rather than housing the absolute best powerlifter ever. It’s what actually appealed to people; the system seemed to generate champions, rather than simply being the gym where a prodigy trained.

Same with the injuries; people saw a guy like Dave Tate or Louie Simmons who, by all accounts SHOULDN’T be able to lift any sort of weights any more due to how injured they got on previous systems yet Westside allowed them to still compete AND smash records.

And as far as I’m aware, Dan Green never trained at Westside.

Otherwise though, I feel it’s a pretty accurate summary.

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Actually I remember certain writers saying similar things way back in the late 80,s also… I can think of several BB whom original competed in Powerlifting before switching over Bev Frances and Ronnie Coleman. Going back even further you had Sergio Oliva whom started training for Olympic lifting also . Just figure I would throw that in for the sake of conversation along with just adding into this thread.

But i will admit to be actual competitive in which ever discipline one has to spend some time specializing .

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