T Nation

Does Evolution Destroy Religion?

Humans evolved and our brains developed so as we could survive and prosper on this earth. Our brains didn’t develop in order to do anything else except survive as the fittest for survival. Our brains didn’t develop any capacity for religion and knowing god simply because those things weren’t required for survival. Praying simply doesn’t help you fight off lions or your neighbor wanting to steal your food and rape your women.

So, evolution excludes us from ever knowing god in any way except through blind faith or revelation. And blind faith is not knowledge. Evolution excludes us from ever knowing god.

Sorry religious guys…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Humans evolved and our brains developed so as we could survive and prosper on this earth. Our brains didn’t develop in order to do anything else except survive as the fittest for survival. Our brains didn’t develop any capacity for religion and knowing god simply because those things weren’t required for survival. Praying simply doesn’t help you fight off lions or your neighbor wanting to steal your food and rape your women.

So, evolution excludes us from ever knowing god in any way except through blind faith or revelation. And blind faith is not knowledge. Evolution excludes us from ever knowing god.

Sorry religious guys… [/quote]

Congratulation.
That’s one of your most incoherent posts ever.

If anything, the fact that billions of people are religious is a definitive proof that, at least at some point in our evolution, being religious was a desirable trait and helped our survival.

Also, religious people have more fertile grand-children than irreligious people.
IE : they DO “prosper on this earth”. In the most darwinian meaning of these words.

Naw Good Head…er’ I mean Head Hunter, I think we are devolving.
Adam and Eve were superintelligent beings but ironically naively so,
because somehow a serpent had either had snuck in, was allowed in, or invited into the Garden Of Eden to
scam those two promising them powers they already fucking had!

Anyways, they were VERY intelligent otherwise, not that they could have made a computer
from the materials in the GOE, but I wouldn’t doubt if we see them one day,
we will be stunned at their stature and incredible looks, think of 12 feet tall toned and moderately
muscular naked versions Of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and you begin to get the picture, but even that
analogy might not do it justice.

The Wisdom Tooth situation is an interesting one…a common defect that clues us in
that we must have had larger Jaw Bones to comfortably accomodate them, but they don’t now,
they mostly come in crooked…so our Heads and Bodies must have been larger at one time.

Is that Buzz bait or a diver ?

How does religion fit anywhere with evolution? Most of humanity had to battle every day and face all sorts of terrors. Our brains didn’t evolve to see any mystical planes of existence. No one can prove God exists because our brains don’t function that way.

Our brains evolved to help us conquer nature and conquer other humans.

Evolution IS a religion. Or at least a tenet of religion. It is perfectly compatible with all sorts of religions including apostate ones disguised as Christianity. If there was no historical Adam and Eve created as recorded in the opening chapters of Genesis as our first parents to model God’s design for family and marriage who fell into sin and us in them, then Jesus Christ was no Christ at all, but the chief of deceivers and worse than the devil who doesn’t then exist either.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Is that Buzz bait or a diver ?[/quote]

Deep six. Or maybe a downrigger planer.

I think humans ability to concieve of gods and other supernatural beings is a byproduct of our evolution. There is a hypothesis that homo sapiens sapiens evolved to the most dominant animal on earth, because we evolved our ability to concieve of abstract concepts, wich means we survided because we can concieve of what is not. In the hypothesis our ability to think about abstract things made it possible for us to have a concept of a future, wich in turn made it possible for us to plan ahead and for instance save water and food incase of bad conditions.

Religion or the concept of a spirit world and/or gods is a product of our ability to concieve of abstract concepts and therefor I will say that the concept of religion is highly compatible with the human evolution and perhaps a testament to it.

Ps. I am sorry if my post is full of spelling and gramatical errors.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< No one can prove God exists >>>[/quote]Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?[/quote]

Many, many voices, apparently.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< No one can prove God exists >>>[/quote]Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?
[/quote]

I never said that was a proof of anything. Subjective experience is perfectly acceptable knowledge for the person who experiences this.

Proof means that you can demonstrate something as true for others, not just yourself.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Humans evolved and our brains developed so as we could survive and prosper on this earth. Our brains didn’t develop in order to do anything else except survive as the fittest for survival. Our brains didn’t develop any capacity for religion and knowing god simply because those things weren’t required for survival.[/quote]

Then where did religion come from? Human brains didn’t evolve to have the capacity for religion… so aliens came and imprinted ideas for religion in human brains? I mean, religion exists, ipso facto, human brains have the capacity for religion. Otherwise it would never have come up…

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Humans evolved and our brains developed so as we could survive and prosper on this earth. Our brains didn’t develop in order to do anything else except survive as the fittest for survival. Our brains didn’t develop any capacity for religion and knowing god simply because those things weren’t required for survival.[/quote]

Then where did religion come from? Human brains didn’t evolve to have the capacity for religion… so aliens came and imprinted ideas for religion in human brains? I mean, religion exists, ipso facto, human brains have the capacity for religion. Otherwise it would never have come up…[/quote]

We developed an imagination. Imagination is helpful for survival. Humans then misdirect the imagination for purposes other than survival. Religion is simply an error.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< No one can prove God exists >>>[/quote]Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?
[/quote]

I never said that was a proof of anything. Subjective experience is perfectly acceptable knowledge for the person who experiences this.

Proof means that you can demonstrate something as true for others, not just yourself.
[/quote]So all your positive proclamations such as “There is a god, just not like what any of you guys say he is”. He told me________________? Along those lines? You have no proof for any of that? That’s what you’re saying?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< No one can prove God exists >>>[/quote]Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?
[/quote]

I never said that was a proof of anything. Subjective experience is perfectly acceptable knowledge for the person who experiences this.

Proof means that you can demonstrate something as true for others, not just yourself.
[/quote]So all your positive proclamations such as “There is a god, just not like what any of you guys say he is”. He told me________________? Along those lines? You have no proof for any of that? That’s what you’re saying?
[/quote]

Certainly. I never said it was proveable or was trying to prove anything. God speaks to me and I simply say what God said. That simple.

Your Bible says that man is made in God’s image. The converse is true: God is like us. But like the cells in our bodies, are they aware that they are part of a human being? God has the power to make us aware of Him if he chooses but awareness of God isn’t built into us by natural selection. It wasn’t necessary for our survival.

BTW: I would never try and dissuade anyone from the comfort of their religious beliefs. I hope I’m not making you doubt. Keep the faith – its good for you. :slight_smile:

[quote]florelius wrote:
I think humans ability to concieve of gods and other supernatural beings is a byproduct of our evolution. There is a hypothesis that homo sapiens sapiens evolved to the most dominant animal on earth, because we evolved our ability to concieve of abstract concepts, wich means we survided because we can concieve of what is not. In the hypothesis our ability to think about abstract things made it possible for us to have a concept of a future, wich in turn made it possible for us to plan ahead and for instance save water and food incase of bad conditions.

Religion or the concept of a spirit world and/or gods is a product of our ability to concieve of abstract concepts and therefor I will say that the concept of religion is highly compatible with the human evolution and perhaps a testament to it.

Ps. I am sorry if my post is full of spelling and gramatical errors. [/quote]

In addition to that, I’ve read that people are ingrained with a feeling of there often being some sort of presence there when there isn’t. This was helpful because it’s better to think there’s a tiger hiding behind the bushes and there isn’t then to not think there’s a tiger behind the bushed and there is. From there, that constant feeling of presence was turned into the abstract concept of religion as we developed the capacity to do so.

You may not see religion as having survival value, but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have one. I can certainly think of advantages.

What do all religions (and philosophies, for those less-inclined to the faith) have in common? They’ve all got moral systems, and pretty similar ones, for the most part. I don’t believe in any absolute form of morality, but I do believe that morality has value. All belief systems have some basic tenets that condemn senseless violence, thievery, divvying up mates so that most will get the chance to reproduce, etc. I highly doubt that any culture that promotes a “rape, pillage, and slaughter” attitude toward its own people is going to be very successful.

Humans are highly social animals that depend on teamwork to survive. Belief systems lay down the basic moral framework for us to co-operate peacefully, and political systems fine-tune the specifics and oversee the day-to-day operations.

That said, I could be very wrong about this indeed. Religion and civilization have been around for thousands of years. That is a mere blip on the evolutionary time-scale. We were already seriously worried about all dying in 1962, so belief systems (and their human creators) could be nothing but an evolutionary aberration waiting to be corrected, just like the poor dodo.

There’s the sense of hope and purpose too to go along with all that. I personally think that’s the biggest one.

Yep…Hope. Chuck Missler once spoke about a secular Quantum Physicist that discovered we do
not stay dead and Humans will resurrect after death eventually, apparently the revelation was so profound to him he couldn’t cope with it and killed himself as a result.
A Psychologist’s nightmare lol…trying to analyze why he did it, because one would think
he would utterly ecstatic about his personal discovery, but we are not fucking logical,
We’re so emotionally complex and varied in our thinking it isn’t funny.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:<<< No one can prove God exists >>>[/quote]Who is it that keeps talkin to you then?
[/quote]

I never said that was a proof of anything. Subjective experience is perfectly acceptable knowledge for the person who experiences this.

Proof means that you can demonstrate something as true for others, not just yourself.
[/quote]So all your positive proclamations such as “There is a god, just not like what any of you guys say he is”. He told me________________? Along those lines? You have no proof for any of that? That’s what you’re saying?
[/quote]

He is a prophet!