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Dodgy Test Levels, Thyroid Readings and General Well Being

I have been having issues for quite a while now. I came across and have read through the Thyroid sticky while googling. Thyroid has been my focus as to the root cause of my problems for quite a while now but it may be adrenal fatigue. Both of them and testosterone are all interlinked it seems and one without the other in good working order usually doesn’t happen.

The symptoms seem to be quite common for issues with any of the three AFAIK, which would be low sex drive, low motivation/depression/anxiety, poor memory, brain fog, trouble concentrating and just a general lack in everything for me.

I never have had an issue with getting it up when with a chick but there is little motivation there in the way to go chasing girls for many years now, turning 36 this year and I would really like to start to see some progress in my health.

I have gotten bloodwork done two years ago and hair analysis a couple times for an overview of minerals. Around two years ago I went to a doctor and he got me to complete an extensive amount of bloodwork tests but maybe not extensive enough missing out on some thyroid markers in particular amongst other things I’m sure. I have come to learn that these docs are just simply blind to certain factors and/or were never taught to look for them when training.

My first port of call will be iodine replenishment. I had read about the vital importance of iodine for the thyroid in the past but then also read conflicting reviews that it can make a thyroid condition worse so threw it out the window until now. The evidence of the high consumption of Japanese people of iodine is enough for me to continue with it along with the fact that nothing has worked over the last 2 years because my symptoms aren’t much better. I struggle to think how iodine could fix all my problems though?

I have ordered Ioderal (I think its called) along with selenium as they are best taken together. I will probably start on 25mg iodine/iodide and 100mg of selenium, instead of building up too slowly and see how that goes for a week then up it to 50mg for another 10 days. Should I continue with 50mg for longer than that or how should one think about this process? Based on the Dr Brownstein method, it seems you need the other things that some people mention like vitamin C, Niacin, magnesium oxide and unrefined sea salt mixed with water to flush out the bromines etc while doing IR is this true?

My temperature readings over the last few days:

9am - 96.8, 97.1, 97.0, 97.0, 97.0, 96.8,
3pm - 97.5, miss, miss, 98.05, miss, 98.4

Target is 97.7 in morning and 98.6 in afternoon. To me I would have thought that such a small variation could be for many reasons but according to the sticky this is a good indicator?

I am based in Australia so im not sure how people report the levels of blood readings on here, I will report them here as they were given to me and we can convert them if needed if somebody has any good suggestions or legit feedback. Ideally I will add an attachment of them if I can figure out how to do it.

Below is readings of high TSH that was tested start of June 2017.

Thyroid%20TSH

The doctor then tested for TSH again Aug 2017 and included thyroid antibodies and FT3 below. Thyroid immune disease prognosed based on the elevated antibodies. It was at this point they recommended thyroxine which I refused and instead tried to do a deep dive on what could be the cause, I don’t wanna have to take shit hormones in perpetuity unless no other options. I have not had any other thyroid tests carried out since this.


TSH%20Test%202

Below is my test results from Mid 2017 of androgen bloodwork.
I really don’t know a lot about this but feel for my age after doing some research, with good general fitness my test should be alot better. At least the middle of that range. I had seriously considered taking a test enanthanate cycle to see if I could get back on track but ended up scrapping that idea.

Test%20Blood%20Mid%2017

Based on that sticky on here from KSman, I looked into Dr L Wilson.
He has a website with alot of information.
His protocol seem extremely hard to follow, the diet component.
Now let me be clear my diet is often better than anybody else I know.
Organic vegetables as much as possible, organic meat or free range etc.
His recommendation that organ means are toxic threw me off as nearly all other health professional that I read about online say they are the most nutrient dense food available.
Nearly everything is excluded to some degree with food to be cooked a particular way etc etc.
Given my work situation its impossible to follow that protocol.

Hopefully this has a little bit of structure to it and some feedback from some “experts” to point me in the right direction would be helpful. Im trending towards the cause now being adrenal fatigue which is effecting the thyroid and androgen readings. I watched a video where the symptoms were summarised as a person who wakes up in the morning who still can feel tired, needs stimulants to get them through the day (coffee, sugar, both of which I dont eat much of at all though, max one cup of coffee in morning and sugar avoided majority of time) then gets a second wind later at night when its time to go to sleep. I know little of adrenal fatigue but worked very long hours 12-14 hours day for approx 5 years with alot of stress and feel like this may have burnt me out and continue too.

Man first of all seems you have hypothyroidism. Get values for T3, T4 and reverse T3.
Your test is also low but I suggest you start with the thyroid.

The low test can be due to thyroid issues. Take LH reading as well and proalctine also.

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I agree with vonko. I’m not an expert on thyroid by any means but your antibodies lab seems to be pointing at an autoimmune disorder.

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Your thyroid is obviously having problems if your TSH/pituitary gland has anything to say about it and is pointing to an autoimmune disorder. More often than not doctors don’t know why the immune system attacks the thyroid gland, your immune system is just going haywire.

These days most doctors want to treat the symptoms, if you want to find the cause, be prepared to search long and hard for a doctor willing to devote the time to do so, assuming you can even rectify the situation. Regard body temperatures, wouldn’t be the first time someone had normal body temps and hypothyroidism.

You’re missing the larger picture of what’s going on with the thyroid not testing Free T3 and Reverse T3. Without these tests you have no idea what type of thyroid treatment you require.

If Free T3 was low or even normal and Reverse T3 were elevated, T4 only treatment is the incorrect path forward. There are doctors that attempt to manage people on thyroid medicine by TSH and Free T4 alone, this is a mistake.

TRT will not work when there are thyroid problems.

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Your Free T levels convert to 7 ng/dL. Most men have symptom resolution once they hit 30 ng/dL.

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Get your thyroid handled. A free T of 30, or 300, won’t make a bit of difference if your thyroid is jacked.

I have written out an extensive list of test work that I want to get done in the near future in my iPhone notes, meaning within the next 6-12 months. I want to be more concentrated with my demands than throwing out 50 tests the next time I go to see a doctor and overwhelming him/her. I am planning to see one hopefully within the next 24 hours to get the ball rolling. I would like to get these done before I start with Iodine replacement therapy and then compare in few months time to see if anything has changed and see if they have changed compared to the readings I have had in the past.

So the absolute essentials are, as some of you have also noted, the thyroid markers, based on previous elevated readings.

I will be asking for:

TSH,
Free T3 + T4
Reverse T3
Anti-Thyroid peroxidase (TPO Ab in Australia),
Anti thyroglobulin (ATG Ab here)
TSH receptor Ab

Most of these tests I pulled from what I consider the gold standard lab (No basis for that comment apart from the extensive testing options they give) here in Australia called Nutripath, along with a few other places that I picked up info online. None of the tests they complete is covered by Medicare and I have spent quite a bit of money already getting tests done here but I’m hoping to get them done through my normal doctor. Here is what they list as extensive thyroid panel. Is there anything else directly to thyroid that should be included?

I also want to do the thyroid essential cofactors. These are the minerals that help keeping the thyroid in good working order. I read somewhere there is more selenium in the thyroid that anywhere else in the body so I feel this cofactor test is very relevant. I would be surprised if this is something I can get done by a normal doctor through the system here in Australia, has anybody gotten these tested before? Two options are given. I know for iodine testing the recommended test is the 24 hour test so that’s the one I am trending towards here.

I think other things need to be tested along with the above to give a bigger picture. Like I mentioned previously I feel adrenals could be an issue for me also. I think once I can fix both of these then my male androgen hormones will correct themselves. Its going to be an uphill battle.

Adrenal testing is something I know the least about. There are also lots of other factors that combine in my case to make it complicated. When I got my original tests done in June 2017 blood test Haemoglobin panel was completed and I was borderline neutropenia, as seen below.

HAEM%20Tests%20Mid%202017

neutopenia%20defineition

My neutrophils started to rise and would be considered to be out of the borderline neutropenia range when I got tested again at this point in time below which was March 2018

Now I think the main reason for this was because I had an infection which I first found out about in Nov 2017 as per below so my body was trying to fight it. Yes I was probably up to no good but not sure how I got this. It took a long time to get rid of this with different courses of antibiotics and eventually was tested clear in June 2018, below also.

Mycoplasma%20Genitalium

Mycoplasma%20clear%20June%202018

So I am wondering whether this infection could have also being causing my elevated thyroid antibodies. I don’t know that because I haven’t gotten them tested since I got cured of this infection.

There are also other factors that have been detected in the past such as what I consider from doing research as suboptimal B12 levels and also poor digestion from stool samples results.
All these tests and how they interrelate is outside the scope of knowledge of vast majority of people and doctors. Im sure there are passionate experts professionals who would be willing to take on the challenge (I dont know of any) but also that challenge would not be cheap.

I will leave it at that for now and see if more discussion can be had here. Hoping this will come out properly, I can’t see a preview post option. Right now I want to see what other tests I should ask for as a priority in conjunction with the thyroid tests I have outlined above. Thanks

As per another posters, here was my original prolactin test June 2017

Prolactin%20June%202017

Is prolactin important for thyroid/adrenal, I though just male sex hormones?
Wonder is @KSman around to view this, he seems to have good knowledge and who the other knowledgable people on here I could tag for some input?

I have gotten more tests done and the results including some thyroid markers that I didn’t have before, FT3 FT4 and RT3.

My TSH is the lowest I have seen it since I have been testing it. Have not done the iodine protocol in any meaningful way but have started introducing kelp into the diet.

I don’t think I have been taking the kelp long enough for it to have an effect on my results so I can only put it down to other factors which I expect the main ones being less stress, better diet and better sleep due to being off work for the best part of 3 months prior to doing the tests.

Having said that FT3 is above the lab guidance and so is progesterone. My test still looks low as opposed to optimal, I will try to attach so hopefully I can get a critique of the results.

I have booked in to see a doctor who is said to have expertise in hormonal treatments to get a second opinion compared to my usual doctor. Seeing him tomorrow so would be nice to have some ammo to fire at him with these new and existing results.

Seems you have a decent improvement in the thyroid

Thyroid is improved, Free T3 is high, pituitary seems happy with thyroid hormones. Test is 484 by our standards and usually men with SHBG above mid-range will have sub-optimal Free T, Free T needs to be high normal or higher for most men to feel optimal.

I doubt under a state healthcare doctor would ever prescribe TRT with these numbers, hope you have private clinics in Australia.

I haven’t been taking any thyroid hormones.
The reductions in TSH I put down to reduced stress, better sleep habits, less drinking/binge drinking.

I have seen the Dr today who recommended that I take TRT.
I have never really been one to take (apart from recreational the odd time) any “drugs”.
He could see I was reluctant and has told me to have a think about it and to come back to him if I have any concerns.

I asked the doctor if my androgen levels could improve through life changes such as reduction in stress, better diet (diet is solid already) etc which he seemed to think that yes they could but the fact that I have implemented certain changes 7-9 months ago and they aren’t much better than what they were in the past means that its unlikely that it will make any further difference.

He claimed that any of the tests completed for the male hormones are inaccurate.
The most accurate one he said is if you are hooked up to a machine over an extended period of time and your blood is going through the machine, measuring it that way, which is rare and that even then its not very accurate. He tried to explain about different bonds and receptors etc etc but it went over my head.

I asked about the elevated FT3 but he didn’t seem to be in any way concerned about it.
He said the SHBG is high and the FSH and LH results are not good.
My LH is 9 and that’s the top of the guided lab range, 2-9
My FSH is 4 and the range is, 2-12.

Based on the FSH and LH readings he said its an issue with the downstairs region? He said my pituitary and hypothalamus seems to be working well and my prolactin readings are good.

He was of the opinion that really its the symptoms that are the best markers of whether to proceed with TRT but in conjunction with the blood tests.

So I guess now I need to do research on TRT or any suggestions as to what’s the best path forward?

He said either creams or injections work and that its up to the person if they want to take HGC (or whatever its called) so my balls don’t shrink.

He also asked about whether I would like to have kids in the future which I would and that if I was trying for kids in the future I would have to come off the TRT (I think thats what he said)

I would love to know the name of this doctor so I can recommend him to others, sounds like a no BS doctor who knows labs do not show everything that’s going on. Labs do not show how the androgen is interacting with the receptor or the sensitivity of that receptor.

You can’t go wrong with two injections per week, unless trying to lower estrogen to do side, then more shot frequency may be required. I stopped TRT 2 months ago and it only took 4.5 weeks to have things turn on upstairs, this is without any restart, no clomid and no HCG.

No huge crash which I was expecting. You can use HCG and FSH injections while on TRT to regain sperm production on TRT.

You would have seen the name on here before, Dr Zentner in Australia.

It just seemed to me that he thought about nothing else except putting me on TRT, which I thought was a bit weird (in the sense that every script he writes makes him richer) but maybe that’s what the results and symptoms told him?

There are some other users on here who have seen this doctor and I would like to get some views from them of how they found his orders worked out and if the symptoms got better.

It seems he likes to give a once a fortnight injections but 2 times a week is much more efficient method of doing it?

Also as per the attachment he seems to prescribes primotestone, is this a good variant to use?
I know this is an injection, should i do injections or gels/creams?

What does this mean?

I have seen other posters comment on this forum in regards to Dr. Zentner in Australia.

I can’t remember exactly where I came across Dr Zentners name, maybe it was on this website but have done a search since to see if I can find other members who have been in consultation with this doctor and find out their thoughts on the Dr., the results of what they have done on the docs recommendation, did the symptoms that you went down this route for initially get medicated effectively and what the prices of everything was.

@Graemsay @flash74 @tj1988 @tuna.chunks @mark_perth @smoothest_criminal @wedabest

TSH would be elevated (2.5>) if the pituitary detected less than normal Free T3.

Yeah, don’t do that. Get the scrip, get the supplies, inject yourself once a week minimum. Every two weeks is stupid and pointless, unless it’s Sustanon. If it’s Sustanon, it might work for you but it’s probably too infrequent even for Sustanon.

@tshtruth Hey, I see Dr Zentner but have only seen him for T levels, I had no idea he looked so closely at thyroid as well. I’ve had high levels of RT3 560 pmol. I might have to give him a yell about my thyroid as well now.

My TSH levels are generally fine. They bounce between 1.5 and 2.5. So far I haven’t felt the need to do anything to correct them