T Nation

Doc Says no HCG/AI

Usually low cholesterol can lower T, but yours is high too high actually, that isn’t the cause.

Your HPTA is repressed.

Can be high E2, prolactin, thyroid, or an adenoma.

An MRI wouldn’t be a bad idea just to be safe. Not all adenomas secrete prolactin or anything at all.

A serm restart might work in your case.

I’ve been denied or an MRI up to this point

I’ve read the stickies, however, I need further explanation on hpta

You can easily get AI/HCG yourself. HCG from an international pharmacy was cheaper than my prescribed HCG and insurance. Liquidex from a research chemical company online is cheap and easier to dose than prescription Adex. I’ve started using my prescribed Adex, but I dissolve in vodka and use a dropper to spread the dose out a bit.

E2 blood tests are cheap if you can find a labcorp near you to do the draw. I order my own testing from LEF, CanaryClub, or PrivateMD, and then do the draw at a labcorp 20min away.

I’ve also started feeling quite a bit better by spreading my T injections out a bit. I do 30mg EOD. I have low SHBG and seem to metabolize T pretty fast so this works for me. E2 is much easier to manage if T is stable. You’ll probably want use insulin needles and inject SubQ if injecting more often.

Ksman, any thoughts on my blood work?

[quote]dhickey wrote:
You can easily get AI/HCG yourself. HCG from an international pharmacy was cheaper than my prescribed HCG and insurance.


what pharms have you had success with? trying to gather sources in case i go that route.



It does seem like that is an option to go with in the future. Right now I’m trying to figure out what is causing my issues. I have started treating my

triglycerides and cholesterol with Gemfribizol and Ill be doing an Isagenix cleanse next week to reset my body. I’ve heard of great benefits from

this the Isagenix system. Lowering the cholesterol should help bring up the T


Cholesterol might be a chicken/egg situation with low t, as I’ve heard low t can contribute to elevated bad / lowered good cholesterol levels. so the solution to the cholesterol issue may be addressing the T issue.

That could be. As most of us know, trt will raise chol, but will it lower it.

Has high chol ever lowered t? I’m still looking into that and trying to find those answers


TRT can reduce cholesterol. High cholesterol will not lower T, low T will increase cholesterol.

Increase HDL:

  • fish oil, flax seed meal or oil, nuts
  • high potency B complex multi-vit with trace elements
  • DHEA if DHEA-S is below mid range
  • CoQ10, Ubiquinol type is best
  • Anti oxidants, Vit-C, natural source vit-E

Exercise burns triglycerides. Mitochondria burn fats, some of the above assists that.
Nothing works well if thyroid function is not good.

Saliva Test Results

Test Name Results Range
Insulin-Saliva----------- Fasting: < 3--------- Normaal: 3-12 uIU/ML

Free Cortisol Rhyth- ----- 6am-8am: 10 Depressed--------- 13-24 NM
10pm-midnight: 3 Depressed- ------ 5-10 NM

Estrone--------- 38 Normal----------------- Normal for age: 30-58 pg/ml

Estradiol---------- 5 High--------- Male (20-49yrs): 1-3 pg/ml

Progesterone------- 4----------- Male (adult) 5-95 pg/ml

Free Test ----------- 61 Normal-------- Male (31-40yrs): 50-80 pg/ml

Dehydroepiandrosterone Free----- Diurnal Average:1 Depressed-------- Adults (M/F): 3-10 ng/ml
{DHEA + DHEA-S}-------------- DHEA values may indicate a
stressed maladapted adrenal

how would one select a good fish oil?

I met with the physician after i received the saliva test results. He recommended the following protocols. thoughts on the protocols and the saliva tests please

Estrogen Control Protocol
Vit. D 5,000 IU per day
Vit K 3 3 drops
Vit A 5,000 IU per day
Vit E Complete
DHEA 12-25mg per day
Progesterone 8 drops per day

Adrenal Repair Protocol
Vit C work up to 10000mg per day
Siberian Ginseng Eleuthero 4-5 squirts per day
adrecor 1-2 caps per day

HDL Protocol
L-Lysine 1000mg each day
L-proline 1000mg each day

Tri-Glyceride Protocol
High Quality Liquid Fish Oils twice per day

FREE T4 0.71 0.58-1.64 NG/DL

You should be near mid-range of 1.11, you are way below that. What is going on with your oral body temperatures. Sticky: thyroid basics

Mitochondria burn fats and need adequate CoQ10 do to that: recommended earlier.

Obtain and read Wilson’s book on ‘adrenal fatigue’

What is going on and has happened with stress, stress events, surgeries, illnesses etc?

Have you found a new doctor in MA? I live in MA and I am looking for a new doc as well.

You’re injecting 100MG per week, and your T levels are still that low? Need to get them up to above 500 to start feeling good, and probably 800+ to start feel great.

How long after injecting was that blood taken? My new doc says about 4 days is a good timeframe. Some docs say 7 days, which is of course going to be much lower.



hakrjak, I’m not on TRT

waverunner, I have an apt. next week with a doc and then another at the end of the month with a different doc, so, no I haven’t found one yet. I don’t feel my issues are T related. I feel I’m having problems in other areas. However, I’m still trying to figure that out. The physician that did my saliva tests has been very helpful in my journey. PM me and we can exchange some info if you want.

Ill be starting this protocol:
Adrenal Repair Protocol
Vit C work up to 10000mg per day
Siberian Ginseng Eleuthero 4-5 squirts per day
adrecor 1-2 caps per day

ksman, I have the book and Ive read it.

I measured my body temps for a period of time and all were within the range that I had listed in a prior post. Ill pick back up on recording them for a few days.

ksman, I really don’t understand this too well. could you please break it down a bit
“Mitochondria burn fats and need adequate CoQ10 do to that: recommended earlier”

I haven’t had any surgeries or suffered from any illness other than colds and most recently the flu in January.

I wouldn’t exactly know how to comment on the stress related question. Its hard to say whats normal and whats not

My saliva test was taken before i started Isagenix. I plan is to get blood tests after a month and a half of Isagenix and 2 months of my cholesterol meds. that would put testing at the end of June. I have heard of wonderful results from using Isagenix, and I can already say that i feel extremely better since doing my initial cleanse and following a maintenance program

Coq10 to improve fat burn, lowing triglycerides.

TRT would help your cholesterol.

E2 makes you estrogen dominant vs low T, contributes to below

Prolactin (Plc) 12.80 ng/ml (2.64-13.30) is a concern, may be part of your secondary hypogonadism. No RMI, but a trial with cabergoline would reveal what the effect of prolactin is on your HPTA. The drug is very safe in the 0.5 1.0 mg/week range. May also improve mode by increasing/restoring dopamine as prolactin reduces dopamine.

Can you link to isagenix product and others?

I really do not feel that I can see that your needs are been addressed. There is a sticky for finding a TRT doc.

The doc that I consulted with for my saliva test, and also the new endo I spoke with last week, both feel that the problems lie elsewhere. They feel something else is wrong that’s creating the LowT. I hope to be meeting with the new endo to review my recent results and ill push to have some more blood tests run. This is really the first doctor I’ve met with that had taken an interest in my particular case. I have a meeting with another new doctor next week. Anyway, here’s my results from what he ran

There is no medical studies supporting the benefits of isagenics, just customer results. I’ve been using it for almost thirty days and my cholesterol meds for about 1 1/2 months. The work I’ve done so far in this department is working.
I have stopped using all asthma and allergy meds with exception to symbicort

I’m taking the following daily
5,000 iu vit d
Multi vit
B complex
Fish oil 6000 mg
DHEA 25mg
K-1 300mcg
C complex 10000 mg
A dry 10000 iu

Total cholesterol 178 125-200 mg/DL
HDL chol. 26. > or = 40 mg/DL
Triglycerides. 322. <150 mg/DL
LDL chol. 88. <130 mg/DL
Chol/hdlc ratio. 6.8. <or = 5.0
Non HDL chol. 152. Mg/DL
TSH. 3.13. 0.40-4,50 miu/l
Ft4. 1.1. 0.8-1.8 ng/dl
T3 Total. 103. 76-181 ng/DL
ACTW Plasma. 22. 6-50 pg/ml
IGF1, LC/MS. 275. 53-331 ng/ml
Z score. 1.4. -2.0- +2.0 sd
Aldosterone LC/MS/MS. 11. Upright 8am-10am <or =28 ng/DL
DHEA Sulfate. 517. 110-370 mcg/DL
Cortisol total. 14.8. 8am specimen 4.0-22.0