Hopeless. They just make up shit.
This one really blew my mind. It made my eyes throw up. My message even cited real medical information that she should be reading, but because it came from a patient she just ignored it.
Anyway, I called a local compounding pharmacy, who directed me to a local doc; then they directed me to a urologist they work with. Appointment on Monday. I’m feeling very… pessimistic.
Hey… I was just thinking - my hbc is fairly high and will likely get higher during TRT. I don’t take iron supplements, and I don’t smoke, nor live in a high-altitude environment. My pulse-ox is 99% nearly always. I vape pretty frequently. Could this potentially be the cause? I’ve been doing some reading and there doesn’t seem to be a link between high hbc and vaping, but… a few people have asked the question out there on the internet. Thoughts?
You should seriously consider donating blood. If you are unable, for some reason, then you might have to get a script for a therapeutic blood draw.
??hbc?? = HTC = hematocrit?
Have we discussed that in another thread?
T peaks, from infrequent injections, are though to make high HTC worse.
That’s a possibility. I’m not against that, but I’d love to find the root cause rather than bleeding out in a controlled fashion every few months. Hell, I’ll just do it at home… time to run the warm water, listen to Panic at the Disco, and kut kut kri.
Oops. Hematocrit. I was going with RBC for that and conflated the two.
edit - let me back up for a second here… So my hematocrit was high before starting TRT. I’m trying to figure out why that is. I know you’re active on a lot of other threads, so I’m just reminding. I’m wondering if my vaping habit might be a potential for that. I would expect that my pulse-ox would be lowered if that were the case though… Maybe its from repeatedly pulling from a negative pressure (vaping), as if I were in a vacuum? I’m basing that theory on how endurance athletes will purposefully enter a hyperbaric chamber to increase their red blood cell count temporarily to increase their oxygen carrying capacity. I’m wondering if I’m inadvertently doing something like that?
If you want to get technical, you would test Erythropoietin - Wikipedia to see if it fits your case. Low oxygen is the factor.
Some guys simply have this issue and T makes it worse. T is also Rx to address anemia.
Erythropoietin is a direct response to hypoxic stress. Let’s say for the sake of argument that vaping doesn’t cause direct inhibition of the alveoli to do their job like smoking would. We already know that smoking causes lowered blood oxygen levels, erythrocytosis, and consequently elevated hematocrit. Also, let’s assume that breathing in a vacuum causes momentary hypoxic stress. If this is the case, then it might be possible that repetitive use of a vaping device would eventually cause raised hematocrit levels over time. The question is; does brief but repetitive hypoxic stress cause an erythropoietin response?
Wouldn’t it be neat to prove that vaping causes higher levels of hematocrit? Just the irony alone is enough to give me the shivers. “Vaping is safe!” but sucking air through the size of a straw 80 times a day will kill you. HA!
Totally off topic. Just felt like getting science-y.
You do not take iron supplements…
Some multi-vits contain iron, male multi-vits do not.
Iron fortified: breads, pasta, rice, flour etc.
High HTC can limit blood circulation in organs, increasing EPO. Mini aspirin will help blood flow. Fish oil is also considered a blood thinner.
So I saw a urologist this past Monday. It actually went pretty well! I went in armed fully with knowledge and he immediately recognized I knew what I was talking about. He agreed fully with the protocol that I laid out and ordered some more tests for me. He did mention that I can play with my dosage while self administering as long as I continually get my levels checked to ensure they don’t go too high (TT, FT). He even admitted that he doesn’t know what to do about high E2 if that were to happen and would refer me to an endocrinologist to help. He said he knows that high E2 is bad, but doesn’t know what to do about it when that happens and refers to an endo. A doctor that says they don’t know something? And asks someone else when they don’t know? He must be a unicorn.
He sent an order to my current doc to adjust my dosage to 200mg biweekly, but to allow me to self-administer to 100mg weekly. This is exactly what I told my GP a week ago, so she was clearly pissed when talking to me over the phone. She mumbled something about my insurance or some nonsense. Idiot.
So now that this is fixed, I’ll be able to monitor my E2 and keep it in check if necessary. I may even get hcg depending how I feel.
I really hated all this uncertainty, but I guess I knew that when I decided on this. I just didn’t realize the frustration I’d feel when dealing with this doctor and the ignorance she was spewing. It’s a really conflicted feeling to know that I was playing with my GP’s ignorance when I started all this, yet got mad when she continued to be ignorant.
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Updates:
Just got my insulin syringes. All they had was 31g 5/16th". Hope that will do the trick? I think the preferred is 3/8" or 1/2" 29g right? Oh well… I’ll see how this works out. The pins aren’t the removable kind either so I can’t attach a bigger one to draw with. What a pain. I’ll get it worked out. I’m having trouble with the math here, so help me out: If I’m prescribed 100mg per week, the equivalent to that in every other day injections should be what? .3 ml would be 120mg in 8 days. .25 would be 100mg in 8 days. I guess it can’t be exact? I’m so bad at this part.
So here’s my updated bloods. This was taken right before my biweekly injection. Why is my baseline creeping upwards? I’m willing to bet my E2 spikes right around when I get my injection, so this probably doesn’t show the full picture. Even so… too high? The uro was thinking I had some sort of iron deposit on my pituitary causing my low T, that’s why the iron and ferritin test.
edit: Just did my first SC with a 25g 5/8 in the upper leg. I pulled up a little skin but not so much as to be squeezing. It went WAY easier than I thought it would and way faster too. Barely even felt it. I had a strange aching feeling kind of wash over my leg shortly after. Solvents/alcohol?
update: Sorry it’s been so long to get my temps on here @KSman . I didn’t have a thermometer that worked properly, so I picked one up a few days ago. After checking the last few days my temps in the morning are 97.9 - 98.0 and afternoon are 98.5 - 99.5. I’ve always run a little hot, so getting into the high 99’s and even 100 can be expected.
Sorry to bump this.
I’ve been doing 30mg every other day SC. Lately I’ve been having all the classic signs of high E2. My ears feel hot, libido is down again, my feet feel swollen, retaining water, and I’m moody… REALLY moody. It feels like there’s bees in my head. I have an appointment with an endo on the 22nd, but I need to do something about this like NOW. I don’t think my marriage can survive it.
I know there’s a lot of mixed feelings about DIM around here but… I can’t feel like this for a month. I’ll see about getting a research chem site’s anastrazole too. I used to play the RC Russian Roulette game a while ago and had a few bad experiences. These fly-by-night organizations can’t be trusted from one delivery to the next.
Zinc intake ‘supposedly’ can have some effect on E2 levels.
This thread may be helpful:
Yeah I used the search and read through this one already. Consensus is that DIM is a roll of the dice for people. Maybe it works for you, maybe it doesn’t. It’s worth a shot, anyway. I need to find a trusted RC if this doesn’t work out. I hate using those places…
edit: Getting some DIM today and I have arimistane coming in the mail tomorrow. I want to make sure my next blood work has correct values, so I’ll have to time this stuff properly. I have no idea how long arimistane effects stick around and I don’t see anybody’s blood work based on how long you need to stop before its effect wears off. If it has the same type of mechanism as exemestane then it could be up to 2 weeks? I guess I’ll have to eyeball this and hope for the best. Wish me luck!
I read this a little closer and looked through the thread and the guy is saying zinc alone wasn’t helping much. I’m seeing that there’s a number of things people are taking like Copper, Zinc, Calcium Gluco-blahblahblah. If DIM + Arimistane doesn’t work for me then I’ll try some other stuff. Keep in mind that arimistane is an OTC supplement. People are reporting at least SOME success with it. I’ll try whatever until my endo gets me anastrazole.
If you do a quick google search you’ll see there are a few studies on zinc and liver function:
I would expect that anyone who has improved E2 clearance from zinc was zinc deficient before hand and now has ‘normal’ liver function from zinc supplementation.
I’ll sprinkle some in for good measure. I still have a bottle sitting around from when I was doing the ole ZMA thing.
Every doctor I have seen so far is against SC injections. This always, and without fail, leads to an argument. Should I not be telling them this?
One thing I got from an endo I recently saw is that they can’t accurately calculate peak/trough with EOD injections. They have no way to measure it because it’s not an “approved” method of delivery. She was pushing the gel really hard… like why wouldn’t I use gel it’s so much better, and I can just wash my hands when I’m done. Sorry if this was covered in the stickies but: when is the best time to get a draw based on EOD SC?
Anyway, this same endo is saying that because my PCP didn’t test LH/FSH before she put me on TRT, they want me to stop TRT to then get an accurate assessment of my LH. I said, “So you want me to suffer for a month?” Her response was that “…this is how it’s done.” EDIT: forgot to mention that the endo said they “…don’t prescribe things like anastrazole. Men typically do not need this and it is not FDA approved” Assuming she meant to say “…for treatment of high estradiol levels in men”.
I have never been so thoroughly frustrated with a process ever in my life.
In other news…
I’m using DIM and Arimistane(7-Keto DHEA) with at least some success. It’s been a rocky road, though. I take roughly double the recommended dose of Arimistane, and double of the DIM. I titrated up from the recommended dose with some failures and successes in the last month. I still have some bad days… but this is usually because I miss a dose or something. If I’m very diligent about the timings and dosage through the day I’m pretty good. Libido is way up, feel mellow but confident. If I miss a dose, the next day I feel angry, moody, hot/cold, feet swell a bit, ears get hot…
New endo is testing me for Klinefelter syndrome with a chromosome analysis. I have literally zero symptoms of this. I’m not tall. I don’t have gyno. The only symptom I might have had was reduced body hair as a young adult, but that’s indicative of so many other things.
I keep telling every doc that I’ve never done steroids. They keep looking for a root cause… which I have and don’t ever give them. Should I be telling them? I’ve heard a horror story once that some doctor put steroid use on their medical records and insurance denied them cancer treatment.
Also this:
If anybody could chime in on these two things I’d appreciate it.