[quote]twistedsteel wrote:
Sxio wrote:
Leg grip crunches are when your partner stand as solid as he can, you wrap your legs around their waste and then start crunching. They look a little gay, but are great for leg strength and ab work.
What the F???
[/quote]
He’s serious. MMA fighters do this to make there guard strong.
La’
Redsol1
While I’m doing Meltdown 2, the overhead squats and constant pulls pretty much tak care of conditioning. The only other exercise I throw it in is 45 degree leg raises and sometimes pikes if I’m feeling extra energetic.
[quote]hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads. [/quote]
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.
[quote]randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads.
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.[/quote]
Or try doing 3X18 deads and squats on TBT. Truthfully, I don’t really see the need for direct ab work while doing TBT - If you can’t feel it in your abs, you ain’t doing TBT right.
take a step back from the weight stack while doing tri pull/pressdowns. Theres ur ab work. Thats all ive ever done, plus proper diet, and when i flex em they’re def there.
“Sorry, but no one with 10% body fat has “love handles and a belly.””
I have to watch how I word things. I don’t have either, just a bit more fat there to go until you can see my abs better. I’ll have to post a pic to see what you think my BF is.
I agree. I don’t have the energy to do them after doing TBT.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
If your abs are just starting to “peak through” you are higher than 10%. More like 12% or so. I would like to know how you check your body fat, I do think you are off.
[/quote]
ZEB,
Generally I think you’re right. However, there’s no way to know that unless you see him in person and can conduct a good body fat test on him. The reason is that different people store body fat in different areas of their bodies. In my experience after conducting MANY skinfold tests, people with more even distributions of bodyfat will look leaner in the midsection than those with more lopsided measurements.
For example: Even though my skinfolds on my thigh, chest, triceps, and suprailiac areas can get down to 5mm fairly easily when dieting, my abdominal and midaxillary folds may still be between 15 and 20mm. In other words, I store a lot of fat from the bottom of my chest through the middle of my abs. So even when I’m at 10% bodyfat, my abs aren’t showing at all, except a little on the sides. However, I’ve several clients with more even distributions, who may have 11 or 12% bodyfat, but who’s abs are very visible because their abdominal skinfold is right around 10mm. Now I’m not talking about ripped abs here, but I’m saying you can clearly see definition.
As another example, if you tested person A and there skinfolds came out the following way: chest- 11mm, midax- 10, triceps- 8, subscap- 11, abs- 20, suprailiac- 10, thigh- 15. Their % bodyfat would come out to 12% using Brozek’s equation.
Now let’s say you tested person B and they had the following measurements: chest- 12, midax- 12, triceps- 10, subscap- 13, abs- 12, suprailiac- 12, thigh 14. They would have the same percent body fat, but they would have much more visible abs because of a more even distribution of bodyfat. (Note: both people are 23 year old males.)
So it’s hard to give a certain percentage as a requirement for visible abs. I’d say it’s more important to have a sub 12mm skinfold at the umbilicus to see the abs fairly well. For really ripped abs, you need your skinfold to be sub 7mm.
I’ve only had the 3 point test done. Here’s my results from the other day using an accu-measure caliper. I took each area 3 times.
Date 2/10/2005
Chest 9, 11, 11
Abdominal 12, 12, 15
Thigh 10, 10, 10
BF% 10.4%
Weight 220, 6’ 1" tall, 33 years old
[quote]randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads.
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.[/quote]
I have no interest in 20 rep squats.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads.
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.
Or try doing 3X18 deads and squats on TBT. Truthfully, I don’t really see the need for direct ab work while doing TBT - If you can’t feel it in your abs, you ain’t doing TBT right. [/quote]
My point is if you want to squat big train your abs hard and heavy. If you want a nice six pack just check your diet.
[quote]hfrogs00 wrote:
My point is if you want to squat big train your abs hard and heavy. If you want a nice six pack just check your diet.[/quote]
There’s a quandry - does strong abs make for a big squat, or does a big squat lead to strong abs?
I’m not trying to be a smart-ass. There seems to be folks on both sides of this.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
My point is if you want to squat big train your abs hard and heavy. If you want a nice six pack just check your diet.
There’s a quandry - does strong abs make for a big squat, or does a big squat lead to strong abs?
I’m not trying to be a smart-ass. There seems to be folks on both sides of this.[/quote]
I’m not taking you as a smart ass. It would take alot more than that to piss me off. Strong abs= big squat.
Think about it this way. How will you transfer any power from your legs and hips to the bar with weak abs, and for the sake of argument we will even say the lifters back is fairly strong. But you are only as strong as your weakest link, and in many cases it is the abs.
Rianjack, It seems to be a bit of both.I consider ab training a supplemental to squats and deads.Regardless of where you are in the cart/horse relationship, if your bracing fails and your back buckles- you will be hanging out with me on shitstreet. Happened two weeks ago and still hurts.
To answer the subject of this thread, here’s my $.02:
I have done a sh!tload of dumbass training over the last 10 years of my life. Some ineffective because of method, diet, stagnation, whatever.
BUT, one thing that I have done with solid results is consistent ab training. I remember reading something back in the original Muscle Media magazine (the good one) that said abs are just another muscle - train them like any other to get results. So I started heavy ab work. And I’ve stuck to them. For years I knew I had big strong abs, becuase I could feel them. Finally last year I really busted them out. Heavy ab training freaking works. I never get really lean (probably never below 8%) because, apparently, I fell out of the fatf*ck tree and hit every branch on the way down. Still, I am very capable of visible abs because they are big (and strong).
But it depends on your individual results. I rarely feel my abs from squatting or deads and so do direct work. I just did TBT and trained abs on Tues and Thu rotating between doing different routines. I’ve done 5x5, 10x3, 3x20, etc. Similarly as CW prescribed in TBT for normal muscles.
Another advantage to direct ab work is the ability for prolonged f*cking.
Bastard F*ck Guy
BFG, you make a compelling argument. Who can argue with fucking power!
What kind of ab program did you use over that time? I assume you pieced it together yourself.
[quote]michaelv wrote:
BFG, you make a compelling argument. Who can argue with fucking power![/quote]
Certainly not your mother! (j/k)
[quote]michaelv wrote:
What kind of ab program did you use over that time? I assume you pieced it together yourself.[/quote]
Nothing fancy and primarily this:
Exercises:
Decline situps + weight (not crunches!)
Hanging pikes w/ bent knees + weight
Cable curl crunches on knees
Hanging pikes
Rep schemes:
all over the place
sets reps
10 x 2-5
5 x 5-20
I like to superset abs with other fluffy stuff like calves. This allows improved workout efficiency while providing enough rest to maintain intensity. I prefer a quick 10-20 minute ab/calve blitz 2 or 3 times a week.
BFG
I train abs twice weekly. They’re the last exercises on my weight planner.
I go heavy, and reps don’t exceed 8 - rarely over 6.
This cycle, doing Saxon Bends and Weighted Swiss Ball crunches.
BTW, with saxon bends, starting out, it’s manly to hold the 5lbs DBs. Cuz them biches get all different kinds of heavy.
[quote]hfrogs00 wrote:
randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads.
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.
I have no interest in 20 rep squats.[/quote]
Why not? They seem to have a time and a place for everyone regardless of whether your goals are to look good nekid or you want to become a strong sum of bitch.
[quote]randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
randman wrote:
hfrogs00 wrote:
And Rainjack your abs wont be sore after squats and deads.
Try doing 20 rep squats and then say that.
I have no interest in 20 rep squats.
Why not? They seem to have a time and a place for everyone regardless of whether your goals are to look good nekid or you want to become a strong sum of bitch. [/quote]
They just don’t fit into my game plan.
I agree that everything has a time and place in your program. But you just can’t have everything. When I lay out a plan for myself, 20 rep squats just don’t come up.