To OP, if you are fine without carbs then don’t consume them. However from my personal experience my performance in the gym is terrible when my carbs are low. It is an individual decision the best thing anyone can do is experiment to find what works for them.
Just carb cycle…Have low carb days on your days off when doin cardio, medium days when u dont have a big day in the gym and high carbs when you need the fuel for ur workout…lose fat and gain muscle…yeah it takes time to calculate the grams but its worth it. You wont feel like your always tired because your sugar levels are low 24/7. T-Nation has a great article about carb cycling
Unless your a fitness model training for a big cover then eat your carbs.
How you evolved should dictate how you eat. Afterall, you exist because your ancestors survived by following a particular lifestyle.
The answer lies in your teeth. Most of your teeth are grinders, meant to grind mostly fruits. The few teeth at the front are for tearing at fruit and a small amount of meat. This is how chimps eat and what they eat as well (we share about 99% DNA).
So, eat small amounts of fruit during the day (grapes, apples, kiwi, and so forth). Then, being as we are hunter/gatherers, eat a huge feast at night. Eat an entire chicken, with some salad and steamed vegetables, as an example. Following our ancestors, most of your calories should be ingested in the early evening, when your sympathetic nervous system (activity) is shutting down and your parasympathetic nervous system (digestive) is turned on.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
My question is, why wouldn’t you want to eat carbs? They taste good, improve performance in the gym, fill out your muscles and allow you to hold a pump, keep your hormones humming along, and they’re filled with vitamins, minerals and fiber (well, the unprocessed ones are at least).
COULD you survive eating 0 carbs? Sure, but it would be a pretty lame existence if you ask me.[/quote]
Carbs leave me ravenous for more. They make me extremely hungry and never turn my hunger off…so I don’t like what they do to me
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
leptin is primarily impacted by calorie and carbohydrate intake, fat has little impact.
insulin (a key anticatabolic hormone) is also effected by carbohydrate consumption.
SHBG binds up free testosterone when carb intake is low (one of the reasons some people experience low sex drive on low carbs).
serotonin is also effected by carb consumption, often leading to insomnia or poor sleep quality on extremely low carb diets.
carbs also influence fullness signals after a meal, with numerous studies showing carbs having a more satiating effect than fat in the short term (fat impacts long-term hunger more). Protein, however, is the most satiating nutrient of all.[/quote]
I find this amusing because following a very low carb diet (~30 grams net) I’m sleeping better now than I ever have. I’m never hungry and carbups leave me thirsting for more and more without ever feeling satisfied. As for sex drive.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA try to keep me away from the lady populace! I dare ya!
[quote]Jacked101 wrote:
Just carb cycle…Have low carb days on your days off when doin cardio, medium days when u dont have a big day in the gym and high carbs when you need the fuel for ur workout…lose fat and gain muscle…yeah it takes time to calculate the grams but its worth it. You wont feel like your always tired because your sugar levels are low 24/7. T-Nation has a great article about carb cycling
Unless your a fitness model training for a big cover then eat your carbs.
[/quote]
Thing is I’m not tired at all. I think the extent of my carbs will be Peri-W/O. And since Im bulking perhaps have a slice of pizza at so and so’s house or a cookie or a piece of cake. I recall the leanest I’ve ever been was the morning after drinking and a package of oreos
[quote]esk221 wrote:
While I was exaggerating a LITTLE bit…
LyleMcdonald sez:
At the same time, outside of a small essential fatty acid requirement (a few grams per day from the fish oils, EPA/DHA), fats arenâ??t truly required by the body either. All of the tissues I mentioned above will use glucose if you provide it (the heart is an exception, almost exclusively relying on fatty acids for fuel) and the body can make fatty acids out of other sources if need be (this pathway isnâ??t utilized massively in humans, although a few conditions will make it relevant).
So, outside of the small essential fatty acid requirement, one could make an argument for there being no physiological requirement for fats either.[/quote]
Tell that to all the trappers that used to die from starvation in early America. They ate their fill of rabbit, but managed to die anyway. You need stuff other than protein.
Btw, that has also been known, among those living in the wild in the past, to happen with diets based on lean fish.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
How you evolved should dictate how you eat. Afterall, you exist because your ancestors survived by following a particular lifestyle.
The answer lies in your teeth. Most of your teeth are grinders, meant to grind mostly fruits. The few teeth at the front are for tearing at fruit and a small amount of meat. This is how chimps eat and what they eat as well (we share about 99% DNA).
So, eat small amounts of fruit during the day (grapes, apples, kiwi, and so forth). Then, being as we are hunter/gatherers, eat a huge feast at night. Eat an entire chicken, with some salad and steamed vegetables, as an example. Following our ancestors, most of your calories should be ingested in the early evening, when your sympathetic nervous system (activity) is shutting down and your parasympathetic nervous system (digestive) is turned on.[/quote]
As an aspiring social psychologist with some background in evolutionary psychology, I have to ask everyone in this forum: why the focus on how our ancestors lived? Evolutionary psychology has become the in vogue thing to reference over the past couple of years with regard to nutrition, human mating patterns, and many other social behaviors. Here’s the catch: we are not living in the same world our ancestors lived in. Our society is changing at a faster rate than it ever has, with new technologies, drugs, and random innovations coming out every month. Trying to live like our ancestors have is living in the past- literally. We have the ability to provide our body with whatever nutrients we need, when we need them. No need to hunt all day so we can feast at night when I have some oats I can cook up at 8 in the morning.
Oh, and in regard to chimps- they may have 99% of the same DNA as us, but you have to take into account that 98% of our own genomes dont even code for proteins in any way. What is more important is that ~2% that does code for genes. On a more basic note, you are not a chimp; why would you want to eat like one? Is there some sort of chimp physique you admire?
Back to the point: we know carbs give us quick energy and can spike insulin, so eat them on days you know you’re going to be active/workout. We know fats also give energy, are slower digesting, and are helpful to some bodily processes; fish oils help joints/cardiovascular health, sat fats help with test production, etc etc. We know that proteins are necessary for muscle synthesis, and that BCAAs (namely leucine) are especially important, so have them around a workout.
In short: eat carbs when you work hard, eat enough healthy fats to keep body systems working and for easy calories, and eat enough protein from a variety of animal sources and supplement when necessary. is this really rocket science folks?
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
esk221 wrote:
While I was exaggerating a LITTLE bit…
LyleMcdonald sez:
At the same time, outside of a small essential fatty acid requirement (a few grams per day from the fish oils, EPA/DHA), fats aren�¢??t truly required by the body either. All of the tissues I mentioned above will use glucose if you provide it (the heart is an exception, almost exclusively relying on fatty acids for fuel) and the body can make fatty acids out of other sources if need be (this pathway isn�¢??t utilized massively in humans, although a few conditions will make it relevant).
So, outside of the small essential fatty acid requirement, one could make an argument for there being no physiological requirement for fats either.
Tell that to all the trappers that used to die from starvation in early America. They ate their fill of rabbit, but managed to die anyway. You need stuff other than protein.[/quote]
have hard evidence why they died?
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
How you evolved should dictate how you eat. Afterall, you exist because your ancestors survived by following a particular lifestyle.
The answer lies in your teeth. Most of your teeth are grinders, meant to grind mostly fruits. The few teeth at the front are for tearing at fruit and a small amount of meat. This is how chimps eat and what they eat as well (we share about 99% DNA).
So, eat small amounts of fruit during the day (grapes, apples, kiwi, and so forth). Then, being as we are hunter/gatherers, eat a huge feast at night. Eat an entire chicken, with some salad and steamed vegetables, as an example. Following our ancestors, most of your calories should be ingested in the early evening, when your sympathetic nervous system (activity) is shutting down and your parasympathetic nervous system (digestive) is turned on.
As an aspiring social psychologist with some background in evolutionary psychology, I have to ask everyone in this forum: why the focus on how our ancestors lived? Evolutionary psychology has become the in vogue thing to reference over the past couple of years with regard to nutrition, human mating patterns, and many other social behaviors. Here’s the catch: we are not living in the same world our ancestors lived in. Our society is changing at a faster rate than it ever has, with new technologies, drugs, and random innovations coming out every month. Trying to live like our ancestors have is living in the past- literally. We have the ability to provide our body with whatever nutrients we need, when we need them. No need to hunt all day so we can feast at night when I have some oats I can cook up at 8 in the morning.
Oh, and in regard to chimps- they may have 99% of the same DNA as us, but you have to take into account that 98% of our own genomes dont even code for proteins in any way. What is more important is that ~2% that does code for genes. On a more basic note, you are not a chimp; why would you want to eat like one? Is there some sort of chimp physique you admire?
Back to the point: we know carbs give us quick energy and can spike insulin, so eat them on days you know you’re going to be active/workout. We know fats also give energy, are slower digesting, and are helpful to some bodily processes; fish oils help joints/cardiovascular health, sat fats help with test production, etc etc. We know that proteins are necessary for muscle synthesis, and that BCAAs (namely leucine) are especially important, so have them around a workout.
In short: eat carbs when you work hard, eat enough healthy fats to keep body systems working and for easy calories, and eat enough protein from a variety of animal sources and supplement when necessary. is this really rocket science folks?[/quote]
For some reason this straight forward ‘duh’ explanation really helped. Honestly I don’t respect my own knowledge comparatively to authors on this site. I read and then say oh man they know better than I. But seriously, I know carbs are more efficient with protein around the W/O and I know that I feel great on a high fat diet. So this is what works for hit the heavenly music Eat fats up to pre-W/O ingest protein(w/BCAA’s)+ carbs PWO and a PPWO meal on strength training days then eat fats rest of the day. If I’m gaining more cals, if cutting cut cals and cut one or two PPWO (carb) meals on strength training days. Done.
Sometimes it just takes a nice whack on the head to figure things out. Thank all yous for your patience.
[quote]toocul4u wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
esk221 wrote:
While I was exaggerating a LITTLE bit…
LyleMcdonald sez:
At the same time, outside of a small essential fatty acid requirement (a few grams per day from the fish oils, EPA/DHA), fats aren�?�¢??t truly required by the body either. All of the tissues I mentioned above will use glucose if you provide it (the heart is an exception, almost exclusively relying on fatty acids for fuel) and the body can make fatty acids out of other sources if need be (this pathway isn�?�¢??t utilized massively in humans, although a few conditions will make it relevant).
So, outside of the small essential fatty acid requirement, one could make an argument for there being no physiological requirement for fats either.
Tell that to all the trappers that used to die from starvation in early America. They ate their fill of rabbit, but managed to die anyway. You need stuff other than protein.
have hard evidence why they died?[/quote]
SAS handbook talks about it.
While it certainly mentions it, it doesn’t make clear the more fundamental problem, nor the solution that was in fact found. It makes it sound as if vitamins and minerals could have been the sole cause.
As mentioned previously, the solution found was supplemental fat consumption. Animal fat was kept in – what else – animal skins for long-term use during those periods when only lean meats could be obtained.
(True, meat also does not contain all the vitamins and minerals one should have. From the practical standpoint of one considering a rabbit-only diet, that was a sound point that they made.
As to the reason why this is so: the body’s ability to burn protein is limited. No matter how much protein one consumes, one cannot meet maintenance requirements, at least if assuming any reasonable degree of activity. (I don’t know about bed rest in a warm climate.)
[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
My question is, why wouldn’t you want to eat carbs? They taste good, improve performance in the gym, fill out your muscles and allow you to hold a pump, keep your hormones humming along, and they’re filled with vitamins, minerals and fiber (well, the unprocessed ones are at least).
COULD you survive eating 0 carbs? Sure, but it would be a pretty lame existence if you ask me.
Carbs leave me ravenous for more. They make me extremely hungry and never turn my hunger off…so I don’t like what they do to me[/quote]
The binge instinct is perfectly normal. You should accept it and binge in the early evening, after underfeeding yourself all day (when you’re supposed to be hunting/gathering). Follow nature; ignore experts who try and tell you to go against nature.
When in nature did we ever add up our calories, divide by 6, and eat meals like that? Never.
Why do people get sleepy after a big meal? Why do simple carbs trigger a huge burst of insulin?
Listen to who and what you are and those questions get answered.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
As to the reason why this is so: the body’s ability to burn protein is limited. No matter how much protein one consumes, one cannot meet maintenance requirements [/quote]
i just can’t follow what is meant by this
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
How you evolved should dictate how you eat. Afterall, you exist because your ancestors survived by following a particular lifestyle.
The answer lies in your teeth. Most of your teeth are grinders, meant to grind mostly fruits. The few teeth at the front are for tearing at fruit and a small amount of meat. This is how chimps eat and what they eat as well (we share about 99% DNA).
So, eat small amounts of fruit during the day (grapes, apples, kiwi, and so forth). Then, being as we are hunter/gatherers, eat a huge feast at night. Eat an entire chicken, with some salad and steamed vegetables, as an example. Following our ancestors, most of your calories should be ingested in the early evening, when your sympathetic nervous system (activity) is shutting down and your parasympathetic nervous system (digestive) is turned on.
As an aspiring social psychologist with some background in evolutionary psychology, I have to ask everyone in this forum: why the focus on how our ancestors lived? Evolutionary psychology has become the in vogue thing to reference over the past couple of years with regard to nutrition, human mating patterns, and many other social behaviors. Here’s the catch: we are not living in the same world our ancestors lived in. Our society is changing at a faster rate than it ever has, with new technologies, drugs, and random innovations coming out every month. Trying to live like our ancestors have is living in the past- literally. We have the ability to provide our body with whatever nutrients we need, when we need them. No need to hunt all day so we can feast at night when I have some oats I can cook up at 8 in the morning.
Oh, and in regard to chimps- they may have 99% of the same DNA as us, but you have to take into account that 98% of our own genomes dont even code for proteins in any way. What is more important is that ~2% that does code for genes. On a more basic note, you are not a chimp; why would you want to eat like one? Is there some sort of chimp physique you admire?
Back to the point: we know carbs give us quick energy and can spike insulin, so eat them on days you know you’re going to be active/workout. We know fats also give energy, are slower digesting, and are helpful to some bodily processes; fish oils help joints/cardiovascular health, sat fats help with test production, etc etc. We know that proteins are necessary for muscle synthesis, and that BCAAs (namely leucine) are especially important, so have them around a workout.
In short: eat carbs when you work hard, eat enough healthy fats to keep body systems working and for easy calories, and eat enough protein from a variety of animal sources and supplement when necessary. is this really rocket science folks?[/quote]
For a couple of million years, our ancestors ate like I described. If what they did was wrong, there wouldn’t be any people as we know them. They didn’t eat 6 times per day because they were busy acquiring food (and shelter, and so on). We are not cattle and shouldn’t try to mimic their eating habits. The typical McDonald’s visitor is testament to NOT grazing.
Our digestive systems are a result of evolution and the beings who evolved into us nibbled slight amounts during the day, brought home whatever they could find, cooked it and ate it.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
For a couple of million years, our ancestors ate like I described. If what they did was wrong, there wouldn’t be any people as we know them. They didn’t eat 6 times per day because they were busy acquiring food (and shelter, and so on). We are not cattle and shouldn’t try to mimic their eating habits. The typical McDonald’s visitor is testament to NOT grazing.
Our digestive systems are a result of evolution and the beings who evolved into us nibbled slight amounts during the day, brought home whatever they could find, cooked it and ate it.
[/quote]
And yet how many people have built great physiques through 5-8 meals a day with appropriately timed carbs? And how many have built great physiques using your hunter-gatherer IF approach?
The average McDonald “grazer” is fat because of food quality, not faulty eating patterns. If someone fasted all day, and then stuffed their faces each night on Mcdonalds food… well shit, this is what most fat Americans do anyways.
The human body is a spectacular machine, and is capable of making quick adaptations to overcome environmental stressors. While evolution as a process takes millions of years to bring about change, we have evolved to be able to adapt to a wide variety of environments, and to do so pretty quickly at that. It is this very adaptation to stress that allows us to grow bigger muscles after we tax them in a gym; you lift a heavy weight, your body sees this as a stressor to overcome, and decides to send nutrients to the damaged tissue to repair it so that the next time you have to lift a weight it will hopefully be easier. Your body can adapt to muscular stressors, changes in your sleep patterns, changes in altitude (oxygen concentration) and to all kinds of other problems, especially including changes in dietary patterns. For example, lactose intolerant people can effectively “train” their bodies to be able to digest lactose over several months.
To think our bodies aren’t capable of effectively digesting and utilizing the nutrients from 6 meals over the course of a day is naive, and quite frankly insulting to humans as an adaptive species. Yes, what our ancestors did worked for them and allowed them to survive millions of years ago, but we are not the same as our ancestors and we do not face the same problems they did.
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
The average McDonald “grazer” is fat because of food quality, not faulty eating patterns.
[/quote]
while i agree with most of your points, people are fat because of food QUANTITY not quality.
[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
For some reason this straight forward ‘duh’ explanation really helped. Honestly I don’t respect my own knowledge comparatively to authors on this site. I read and then say oh man they know better than I. But seriously, I know carbs are more efficient with protein around the W/O and I know that I feel great on a high fat diet. So this is what works for hit the heavenly music Eat fats up to pre-W/O ingest protein(w/BCAA’s)+ carbs PWO and a PPWO meal on strength training days then eat fats rest of the day. If I’m gaining more cals, if cutting cut cals and cut one or two PPWO (carb) meals on strength training days. Done.
Sometimes it just takes a nice whack on the head to figure things out. Thank all yous for your patience. [/quote]
This is essentially what I do.
I’m lifting every other day right now to gain while minimizing fat gain. On lifting days I wake up, and eat mostly carbs and protein.
for example:
breakfast- oats/milk + protein powder
training- 1 serving SURGE during
lunch- chicken + rice/beans
snack- Jerky + milk
dinner- turkey sandwich
snack- tuna + almonds/cheese
pre-bed- cottage cheese + choc Metabolic Drive + natty PB
Then on a non-lifting day I’ll have P/F all day; eggs, cheese, fatty meats (beef, salmon), and I’ll probably eat a couple hundred less calories, determined by hunger. Lifts in the gym going up, scale weight going up, visually fat staying the same; I’d say its working.
[quote]spadesofaces wrote:
To think our bodies aren’t capable of effectively digesting and utilizing the nutrients from 6 meals over the course of a day is naive, and quite frankly insulting to humans as an adaptive species. Yes, what our ancestors did worked for them and allowed them to survive millions of years ago, but we are not the same as our ancestors and we do not face the same problems they did.
[/quote]
You are proving what I just said: because we are adaptive, do you think our bodies need to be fed 5-8 times per day? If so, and we didn’t do this in the past, why are we here? And why do we have two nervous systems? Eating all the time triggers the parasympathetic system. Is this good?
Being lean and muscular is actually quite counter to what nature wants. Overcoming that is hard. I suspect that it occurs because those people eat like predators and not scavengers, eating a specific sort of food. Most people eat like scavengers. So yes, I agree that food type has a major impact in this area.