[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
That’s why I pay taxes to the government for the military, pay for insurance to buy healthcare and pay property taxes for my education and saved for my tuition. The system that allowed me to manifest my dreams, I’ve paid with like favors and monetary compensation for their help. What kind of debt would there be?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
And those who use the system the least aren’t required to follow those moral/behavioral obligations you listed…?[/quote]
Those who use the system least usually do follow those obligations (at least most of them).
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
And those who use the system the least aren’t required to follow those moral/behavioral obligations you listed…?[/quote]
Those who use the system least usually do follow those obligations (at least most of them). [/quote]
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
Couldn’t you turn this around and say that society owes a debt too? Inner city decay during the late '60s and '70s, civil disparity, racism, no to little proper education.
Where did the vicious cycle start and how can we stem the tide [if so desired]?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
That’s why I pay taxes to the government for the military, pay for insurance to buy healthcare and pay property taxes for my education and saved for my tuition. The system that allowed me to manifest my dreams, I’ve paid with like favors and monetary compensation for their help. What kind of debt would there be?[/quote]
If your checkbook is balanced, then there’s no argument.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
And those who use the system the least aren’t required to follow those moral/behavioral obligations you listed…?[/quote]
Those managing to use the system least, if at all, or then funding their own debauchery. If Bill Maher wants to spend oodles on pot, women, and shiny new ‘rimz,’ he can afford it. Even so, it would appear that family, religion, and traditional values have been most preserved among the higher income. It’s the lower incomes abandoning those values. Those who can’t afford to do so.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
Couldn’t you turn this around and say that society owes a debt too? Inner city decay during the late '60s and '70s, civil disparity, racism, no to little proper education.
Where did the vicious cycle start and how can we stem the tide [if so desired]?
[/quote]
Marriage. Stop screwing with it, stop downplaying it, stop pretending we recognize it through the state as some kind of pointless pat on the back for individual freedom. Being poor in a broken home is different than being poor with a present and hardworking father. All the entitlement state manages to do is subsidize multi-generational poverty and dysfunction. Fathers and mothers instill values that propel the next generation up to the next rung of the socio-economic ladder. So on and so on.
If I acquired property through trade, then have I not already paid my debt? Society has no part in this. I don’t owe the world for granting me the privilege of giving someone something in exchange for something else. By virtue of being open to trade myself, I contribute to societies trade-ability. Given this, I owe society as much as society owes me. I think we can just call it even here.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
And those who use the system the least aren’t required to follow those moral/behavioral obligations you listed…?[/quote]
Those who use the system least usually do follow those obligations (at least most of them). [/quote]
You actually believe this?
[/quote]
Actually…
You might want to rethink where traditional family structure and religious thought has broken down the most. It isn’t the upper class.
Couldn’t you turn this around and say that society owes a debt too?
[/quote]
Oh it does. It should stop celebrating a culture which undermines traditional values and family structure. Maybe Celebutante X can afford social liberalism, but Joe Schmoe can only afford it with the help of Uncle Sam.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
So what you’re saying is that the poor owe society the most since they really on these things the most? Like, perhaps they owe society certain moral and behavioral obligations. Abstaining from casual sex and multiple partners, abstaining from smoking, drinking, recreational drugs, and stuffing their faces with the newest super-duper size meal at the local fatty-burger. As in, they owe it to society to marry the baby’s mama/daddy. They owe society an intact home, with both biological parents present, in order to maximize production of the next generation of ‘debtors’ to carry the growing burden of aging ‘debtors.’ Or is this conveniently all about owing a monetary amount, in order to subsidize the poor choices of others? [/quote]
And those who use the system the least aren’t required to follow those moral/behavioral obligations you listed…?[/quote]
Those who use the system least usually do follow those obligations (at least most of them). [/quote]
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The system that allows you to live your life in relative safety, that provides healthcare and education; the system that allows you to manifest your dreams, we may like to think we owe it nothing but where would most of us be without it?
[/quote]
That’s why I pay taxes to the government for the military, pay for insurance to buy healthcare and pay property taxes for my education and saved for my tuition. The system that allowed me to manifest my dreams, I’ve paid with like favors and monetary compensation for their help. What kind of debt would there be?[/quote]
If your checkbook is balanced, then there’s no argument.
[/quote]
Couldn’t you turn this around and say that society owes a debt too? Inner city decay during the late '60s and '70s, civil disparity, racism, no to little proper education.
Where did the vicious cycle start and how can we stem the tide [if so desired]?
[/quote]
Marriage. Stop screwing with it, stop downplaying it, stop pretending we recognize it through the state as some kind of pointless pat on the back for individual freedom. Being poor in a broken home is different than being poor with a present and hardworking father. All the entitlement state manages to do is subsidize multi-generational poverty and dysfunction. Fathers and mothers instill values that propel the next generation up to the next rung of the socio-economic ladder. So on and so on.
[/quote]
When did the screwing with marriage start, do you think?
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
If I acquired property through trade, then have I not already paid my debt? Society has no part in this. I don’t owe the world for granting me the privilege of giving someone something in exchange for something else. By virtue of being open to trade myself, I contribute to societies trade-ability. Given this, I owe society as much as society owes me. I think we can just call it even here.[/quote]
Yet we exist by the grace of others, don’t we? Without the [initial] support and input from others there’s very little we might achieve.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
If I acquired property through trade, then have I not already paid my debt? Society has no part in this. I don’t owe the world for granting me the privilege of giving someone something in exchange for something else. By virtue of being open to trade myself, I contribute to societies trade-ability. Given this, I owe society as much as society owes me. I think we can just call it even here.[/quote]
Yet we exist by the grace of others, don’t we? Without the [initial] support and input from others there’s very little we might achieve.
[/quote]
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.