Do You Need to Deadlift to Be Strong?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It would be hard to get good at picking up heavy things if you don’t practice picking up heavy things. Also, every strongman who has ever competed trains their deadlift in some capacity. This should tell you something.[/quote]

well what muscles are used when your picking stuff up from the ground,

quads and lower back: quads trained in squats and leg press. Lower back trained in squat, hyperextensions and probably in bent over row too as i am going with 225 on that

hamstring and glutes: straight leg deadlift, hyperextensions, squat

grip: i am doing dumbbell holds for 60 seconds each set on pull days so thats continuously getting stronger.

so basically my question was that as i am training all the muscles required in picking stuff up from the ground. do i still need to implement conventional deadlift to effectively improve my ability in picking stuff up. i would like not to as i am perfectly happy with my program as it is, but i don’t want to be strong only when we are dealing with barbells and dumbbells. [/quote]

How strong are you in the first place? How strong do you want to be? Unless your dumbbells are 200 lbs each, or more, there is a limit to how useful they will be in training grip strength. If you’re doing dumbbell holds with 100 lb dumbbells, how well is that going to translate to a 500+ lb deadlift? The answer: not very well. Maximal grip strength is different from endurance grip strength. Your 60 second holds are good for endurance, not for maximal strength.

Deadlift also trains your upper back and traps. How are you addressing those?

I can assure you that even if most of your training centers around lifting barbells and dumbbells, you will be able to lift things that are not barbells and dumbbells. Most strongmen only practice their actual events sparingly (depending on who it is, some do more than others). This is important: ALL COMPETITIVE STRONGMEN perform heavy compound lifts on a regular basis, with barbells.[/quote]
are you saying 60 second dumbbell hold will not build strength? well if you hold 35 kg for 30 second, or hold 25 kg for 60 seconds. and then you increase the weight by 2kg, your saying you will get stronger holding 35 kg?

i didn’t think only 60 seconds equaled endurance.

22

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It would be hard to get good at picking up heavy things if you don’t practice picking up heavy things. Also, every strongman who has ever competed trains their deadlift in some capacity. This should tell you something.[/quote]

well what muscles are used when your picking stuff up from the ground,

quads and lower back: quads trained in squats and leg press. Lower back trained in squat, hyperextensions and probably in bent over row too as i am going with 225 on that

hamstring and glutes: straight leg deadlift, hyperextensions, squat

grip: i am doing dumbbell holds for 60 seconds each set on pull days so thats continuously getting stronger.

so basically my question was that as i am training all the muscles required in picking stuff up from the ground. do i still need to implement conventional deadlift to effectively improve my ability in picking stuff up. i would like not to as i am perfectly happy with my program as it is, but i don’t want to be strong only when we are dealing with barbells and dumbbells. [/quote]

How strong are you in the first place? How strong do you want to be? Unless your dumbbells are 200 lbs each, or more, there is a limit to how useful they will be in training grip strength. If you’re doing dumbbell holds with 100 lb dumbbells, how well is that going to translate to a 500+ lb deadlift? The answer: not very well. Maximal grip strength is different from endurance grip strength. Your 60 second holds are good for endurance, not for maximal strength.

Deadlift also trains your upper back and traps. How are you addressing those?

I can assure you that even if most of your training centers around lifting barbells and dumbbells, you will be able to lift things that are not barbells and dumbbells. Most strongmen only practice their actual events sparingly (depending on who it is, some do more than others). This is important: ALL COMPETITIVE STRONGMEN perform heavy compound lifts on a regular basis, with barbells.[/quote]
are you saying 60 second dumbbell hold will not build strength? well if you hold 35 kg for 30 second, or hold 25 kg for 60 seconds. and then you increase the weight by 2kg, your saying you will get stronger holding 35 kg?

i didn’t think only 60 seconds equaled endurance. [/quote]

This is why I asked how strong you are. How much CAN you deadlift? If it’s like 300 pounds or less, dumbbell holds can help you. If you’re stronger than that, it’s less likely.

I’ll use myself as an example. I can currently deadlift 450+ lbs. The heaviest dumbbells at my gym are 120 lbs. So holding 2 of those, I’d be practicing holding 240 lbs, about half of what I can deadlift. How is that going to help me?

23

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:
has anyone seen any strongman competitions from 80,90s? thats the kind of strength i am referring to.

my leg workout as of now, is like this: squat, leg press, straight leg deadlift, calf press and hyperextensions.

so no conventional deadlift, but i am still training all the musclegroups that are involved in picking stuff up from the ground, so shouldn’t i become just as strong?[/quote]

To simply answer the question, no. Try leg pressing 600lbs then try deadlifting 600lbs. Get back to us on how that works out for you.

Another simple answer, drop the leg press and deadlift. Other than the clean and press it’s the second best lift you can do.

24

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It would be hard to get good at picking up heavy things if you don’t practice picking up heavy things. Also, every strongman who has ever competed trains their deadlift in some capacity. This should tell you something.[/quote]

well what muscles are used when your picking stuff up from the ground,

quads and lower back: quads trained in squats and leg press. Lower back trained in squat, hyperextensions and probably in bent over row too as i am going with 225 on that

hamstring and glutes: straight leg deadlift, hyperextensions, squat

grip: i am doing dumbbell holds for 60 seconds each set on pull days so thats continuously getting stronger.

so basically my question was that as i am training all the muscles required in picking stuff up from the ground. do i still need to implement conventional deadlift to effectively improve my ability in picking stuff up. i would like not to as i am perfectly happy with my program as it is, but i don’t want to be strong only when we are dealing with barbells and dumbbells. [/quote]

How strong are you in the first place? How strong do you want to be? Unless your dumbbells are 200 lbs each, or more, there is a limit to how useful they will be in training grip strength. If you’re doing dumbbell holds with 100 lb dumbbells, how well is that going to translate to a 500+ lb deadlift? The answer: not very well. Maximal grip strength is different from endurance grip strength. Your 60 second holds are good for endurance, not for maximal strength.

Deadlift also trains your upper back and traps. How are you addressing those?

I can assure you that even if most of your training centers around lifting barbells and dumbbells, you will be able to lift things that are not barbells and dumbbells. Most strongmen only practice their actual events sparingly (depending on who it is, some do more than others). This is important: ALL COMPETITIVE STRONGMEN perform heavy compound lifts on a regular basis, with barbells.[/quote]
are you saying 60 second dumbbell hold will not build strength? well if you hold 35 kg for 30 second, or hold 25 kg for 60 seconds. and then you increase the weight by 2kg, your saying you will get stronger holding 35 kg?

i didn’t think only 60 seconds equaled endurance. [/quote]

This is why I asked how strong you are. How much CAN you deadlift? If it’s like 300 pounds or less, dumbbell holds can help you. If you’re stronger than that, it’s less likely.

I’ll use myself as an example. I can currently deadlift 450+ lbs. The heaviest dumbbells at my gym are 120 lbs. So holding 2 of those, I’d be practicing holding 240 lbs, about half of what I can deadlift. How is that going to help me?[/quote]

and so the question of whether you can build maximal strength by not training for maximal strenght arises.

my 1 rep max get stronger when i get stronger at 8 repetitions, maybe my 5 second hold get propotionally stronger to how much my 60 second hold gets? so if i can do 25 for 60, maybe i can do 40 for 30 and then 70 for 5-10? hmmm

25

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It would be hard to get good at picking up heavy things if you don’t practice picking up heavy things. Also, every strongman who has ever competed trains their deadlift in some capacity. This should tell you something.[/quote]

well what muscles are used when your picking stuff up from the ground,

quads and lower back: quads trained in squats and leg press. Lower back trained in squat, hyperextensions and probably in bent over row too as i am going with 225 on that

hamstring and glutes: straight leg deadlift, hyperextensions, squat

grip: i am doing dumbbell holds for 60 seconds each set on pull days so thats continuously getting stronger.

so basically my question was that as i am training all the muscles required in picking stuff up from the ground. do i still need to implement conventional deadlift to effectively improve my ability in picking stuff up. i would like not to as i am perfectly happy with my program as it is, but i don’t want to be strong only when we are dealing with barbells and dumbbells. [/quote]

How strong are you in the first place? How strong do you want to be? Unless your dumbbells are 200 lbs each, or more, there is a limit to how useful they will be in training grip strength. If you’re doing dumbbell holds with 100 lb dumbbells, how well is that going to translate to a 500+ lb deadlift? The answer: not very well. Maximal grip strength is different from endurance grip strength. Your 60 second holds are good for endurance, not for maximal strength.

Deadlift also trains your upper back and traps. How are you addressing those?

I can assure you that even if most of your training centers around lifting barbells and dumbbells, you will be able to lift things that are not barbells and dumbbells. Most strongmen only practice their actual events sparingly (depending on who it is, some do more than others). This is important: ALL COMPETITIVE STRONGMEN perform heavy compound lifts on a regular basis, with barbells.[/quote]
are you saying 60 second dumbbell hold will not build strength? well if you hold 35 kg for 30 second, or hold 25 kg for 60 seconds. and then you increase the weight by 2kg, your saying you will get stronger holding 35 kg?

i didn’t think only 60 seconds equaled endurance. [/quote]

This is why I asked how strong you are. How much CAN you deadlift? If it’s like 300 pounds or less, dumbbell holds can help you. If you’re stronger than that, it’s less likely.

I’ll use myself as an example. I can currently deadlift 450+ lbs. The heaviest dumbbells at my gym are 120 lbs. So holding 2 of those, I’d be practicing holding 240 lbs, about half of what I can deadlift. How is that going to help me?[/quote]

and so the question of whether you can build maximal strength by not training for maximal strenght arises.

my 1 rep max get stronger when i get stronger at 8 repetitions, maybe my 5 second hold get propotionally stronger to how much my 60 second hold gets? so if i can do 25 for 60, maybe i can do 40 for 30 and then 70 for 5-10? hmmm

[/quote]

Honestly man it’s like you’re looking for any excuse not to deadlift. You sift through the advice in this thread, all of which telling you if you want to get stronger at picking stuff up, deadlift, and you pick apart tiny things that you might be able to add a point to why you don’t need to deadlift. The main idea of what everyone has told you in this thread is: Yes, you should deadlift, if you want to get stronger/get better at picking things up/get real world strength.

26

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
“There is no reason to be alive if you can’t do deadlift.”

-Jon Pall Sigmarsson[/quote]
Very cool guy. I forget though, how’d he die? Bungee jumping accident? Mauled by a honey badger? ;)[/quote]

He died doing what he loved :slight_smile:

Poor guy. Possibly literally the most ironic thing ever. He believed in what he said though I guess.

27

Stop the Leg Press and the direct Calve training. Incorperate more single leg training and come up on your toes when you can when squating.

28

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
You’re training muscles out of context of the deadlift movement. This means the only way you can get as strong as you want is to deadlift. The deadlift taxes the nervous system in it’s own way. Hence why people become so strong after training it long.[/quote] ah well i better start then.

i will be trying alternating having squat and deadlift first, i tried last time having deadlift after squat and leg press. there was too much fatigue in the legs by that point my form was terrible.
[/quote]

Dude, I don’t get it. Here you say you better start deadlifting (I agree) and then you go on in the rest of this thread to argue why you don’t need to. If you don’t want to dead, don’t. I’m sure nobody cares one way or the other, but why argue about it?

29

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It would be hard to get good at picking up heavy things if you don’t practice picking up heavy things. Also, every strongman who has ever competed trains their deadlift in some capacity. This should tell you something.[/quote]

well what muscles are used when your picking stuff up from the ground,

quads and lower back: quads trained in squats and leg press. Lower back trained in squat, hyperextensions and probably in bent over row too as i am going with 225 on that

hamstring and glutes: straight leg deadlift, hyperextensions, squat

grip: i am doing dumbbell holds for 60 seconds each set on pull days so thats continuously getting stronger.

so basically my question was that as i am training all the muscles required in picking stuff up from the ground. do i still need to implement conventional deadlift to effectively improve my ability in picking stuff up. i would like not to as i am perfectly happy with my program as it is, but i don’t want to be strong only when we are dealing with barbells and dumbbells. [/quote]

How strong are you in the first place? How strong do you want to be? Unless your dumbbells are 200 lbs each, or more, there is a limit to how useful they will be in training grip strength. If you’re doing dumbbell holds with 100 lb dumbbells, how well is that going to translate to a 500+ lb deadlift? The answer: not very well. Maximal grip strength is different from endurance grip strength. Your 60 second holds are good for endurance, not for maximal strength.

Deadlift also trains your upper back and traps. How are you addressing those?

I can assure you that even if most of your training centers around lifting barbells and dumbbells, you will be able to lift things that are not barbells and dumbbells. Most strongmen only practice their actual events sparingly (depending on who it is, some do more than others). This is important: ALL COMPETITIVE STRONGMEN perform heavy compound lifts on a regular basis, with barbells.[/quote]
are you saying 60 second dumbbell hold will not build strength? well if you hold 35 kg for 30 second, or hold 25 kg for 60 seconds. and then you increase the weight by 2kg, your saying you will get stronger holding 35 kg?

i didn’t think only 60 seconds equaled endurance. [/quote]

This is why I asked how strong you are. How much CAN you deadlift? If it’s like 300 pounds or less, dumbbell holds can help you. If you’re stronger than that, it’s less likely.

I’ll use myself as an example. I can currently deadlift 450+ lbs. The heaviest dumbbells at my gym are 120 lbs. So holding 2 of those, I’d be practicing holding 240 lbs, about half of what I can deadlift. How is that going to help me?[/quote]

and so the question of whether you can build maximal strength by not training for maximal strenght arises.

my 1 rep max get stronger when i get stronger at 8 repetitions, maybe my 5 second hold get propotionally stronger to how much my 60 second hold gets? so if i can do 25 for 60, maybe i can do 40 for 30 and then 70 for 5-10? hmmm

[/quote]

nope. doesn’t work like that. If it did, people would be benching 50 lbs for 100 reps and getting huge. You still haven’t told us how much you can dead lift…

30

[quote]JULES BRUCHEZ wrote:
Stop the Leg Press and the direct Calve training. Incorperate more single leg training and come up on your toes when you can when squating.[/quote]

Disagree with point 1, 2, and 4… 3 is probably a good idea.

31

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:

[quote]JULES BRUCHEZ wrote:
Stop the Leg Press and the direct Calve training. Incorperate more single leg training and come up on your toes when you can when squating.[/quote]

Disagree with point 1, 2, and 4… 3 is probably a good idea.[/quote]

wow, I missed this post. 4 is quite possibly the worst advice I’ve ever heard on this site. I’ve never actually heard some recommend that.

32

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Gmoore17 wrote:

[quote]JULES BRUCHEZ wrote:
Stop the Leg Press and the direct Calve training. Incorperate more single leg training and come up on your toes when you can when squating.[/quote]

Disagree with point 1, 2, and 4… 3 is probably a good idea.[/quote]

wow, I missed this post. 4 is quite possibly the worst advice I’ve ever heard on this site. I’ve never actually heard some recommend that.[/quote]

It’s actually awesome that he’s been a member since November 2008, lurked for 4 YEARS, and THAT was his first post, haha.

33

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
You’re training muscles out of context of the deadlift movement. This means the only way you can get as strong as you want is to deadlift. The deadlift taxes the nervous system in it’s own way. Hence why people become so strong after training it long.[/quote] ah well i better start then.

i will be trying alternating having squat and deadlift first, i tried last time having deadlift after squat and leg press. there was too much fatigue in the legs by that point my form was terrible.
[/quote]

Dude, I don’t get it. Here you say you better start deadlifting (I agree) and then you go on in the rest of this thread to argue why you don’t need to. If you don’t want to dead, don’t. I’m sure nobody cares one way or the other, but why argue about it?[/quote]

wtf? i basically explained the first question as the dude didn’t get what i was asking.

i was not looking for excuse to not do deadlift, i was looking for reasons to do it when my program is how it is with the goal that i explained.

" Honestly man it’s like you’re looking for any excuse not to deadlift. You sift through the advice in this thread, all of which telling you if you want to get stronger at picking stuff up, deadlift, and you pick apart tiny things that you might be able to add a point to why you don’t need to deadlift. The main idea of what everyone has told you in this thread is: Yes, you should deadlift, if you want to get stronger/get better at picking things up/get real world strength."

explain what anything in the post you quoted has to do with deadlift…

"nope. doesn’t work like that. If it did, people would be benching 50 lbs for 100 reps and getting huge. You still haven’t told us how much you can dead lift… "

lol

didn’t think i would have to tell you that i UNDERSTAND there is an upper limit, but god damn man the examples i used was 60,30 and 5-10 sec why did you go to 100 reps?

and last time i deadlifted i did 310 for 5 reps

and you didn’t answer if you wouldn’t get stronger in the 30 second hold when you added 2kg to the 60 second hold as that is apparently what you believe.

34

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
You’re training muscles out of context of the deadlift movement. This means the only way you can get as strong as you want is to deadlift. The deadlift taxes the nervous system in it’s own way. Hence why people become so strong after training it long.[/quote] ah well i better start then.

i will be trying alternating having squat and deadlift first, i tried last time having deadlift after squat and leg press. there was too much fatigue in the legs by that point my form was terrible.
[/quote]

Dude, I don’t get it. Here you say you better start deadlifting (I agree) and then you go on in the rest of this thread to argue why you don’t need to. If you don’t want to dead, don’t. I’m sure nobody cares one way or the other, but why argue about it?[/quote]

wtf? i basically explained the first question as the dude didn’t get what i was asking.

i was not looking for excuse to not do deadlift, i was looking for reasons to do it when my program is how it is with the goal that i explained.

[/quote]

Sorry mate, my mistake. The way your subsequent posts are worded (i.e. how squat, leg press, dumbell holds etc. do the all the same things as DL) and given that you also said you prefer not to DL, I got the impression that you don’t want to DL. Most people offering you advice seem to think you need to DL to succeed at your stated goals. Your continued explanations as to how your current program works fine without DL could be perceived as argumentative. Like I said, my mistake.

35

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]buildsomemuscle wrote:

[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
You’re training muscles out of context of the deadlift movement. This means the only way you can get as strong as you want is to deadlift. The deadlift taxes the nervous system in it’s own way. Hence why people become so strong after training it long.[/quote] ah well i better start then.

i will be trying alternating having squat and deadlift first, i tried last time having deadlift after squat and leg press. there was too much fatigue in the legs by that point my form was terrible.
[/quote]

Dude, I don’t get it. Here you say you better start deadlifting (I agree) and then you go on in the rest of this thread to argue why you don’t need to. If you don’t want to dead, don’t. I’m sure nobody cares one way or the other, but why argue about it?[/quote]

wtf? i basically explained the first question as the dude didn’t get what i was asking.

i was not looking for excuse to not do deadlift, i was looking for reasons to do it when my program is how it is with the goal that i explained.

" Honestly man it’s like you’re looking for any excuse not to deadlift. You sift through the advice in this thread, all of which telling you if you want to get stronger at picking stuff up, deadlift, and you pick apart tiny things that you might be able to add a point to why you don’t need to deadlift. The main idea of what everyone has told you in this thread is: Yes, you should deadlift, if you want to get stronger/get better at picking things up/get real world strength."

explain what anything in the post you quoted has to do with deadlift…

"nope. doesn’t work like that. If it did, people would be benching 50 lbs for 100 reps and getting huge. You still haven’t told us how much you can dead lift… "

lol

didn’t think i would have to tell you that i UNDERSTAND there is an upper limit, but god damn man the examples i used was 60,30 and 5-10 sec why did you go to 100 reps?

and last time i deadlifted i did 310 for 5 reps

and you didn’t answer if you wouldn’t get stronger in the 30 second hold when you added 2kg to the 60 second hold as that is apparently what you believe. [/quote]

Fine, I’ll answer the question directly. It will NOT help your maximal grip strength. It will NOT help you deadlift 400+ lbs, which I assume is around your max at a 310x5 dead lift. better?

36

For what its worth. If I was squatting and deadlifting on the same day, if squat first. No way could I squat afterwards, my back would be shagged and it would be asking for disaster squatting. Where as squatting will tax my legs, and my back a bit. I might not dead as much due to worn legs, but my back would be stronger for them.

Food for thought.

37

[quote]sexyxe wrote:
For what its worth. If I was squatting and deadlifting on the same day, if squat first. No way could I squat afterwards, my back would be shagged and it would be asking for disaster squatting. Where as squatting will tax my legs, and my back a bit. I might not dead as much due to worn legs, but my back would be stronger for them.

Food for thought.[/quote]

yeah i think thats wise, i’ll do that.

38

Just fucking deadlift. All the strongmen you idolise deadlifted. A modern strongman, Derek Poundstone broke his fucking back pulling 800 pounds. He came back to deadlift this weight a few months later, after his doctors told him he would never lift again. That’s the attitude you need to have if you want to be that strong. Very few people will ever get to that level, especially if they spend their time asking people on the internet whether they need to deadlift to be strong.

Edited for clarity.

39

[quote]Consul wrote:
Just fucking deadlift, OP. If you want to be strong like a strongman, then do what they do - pick heavy shit up, and put it overhead; drag heavy shit; carry heavy shit; squat and deadlift heavy shit.

Like Chris “Patience of a Saint” Colucci already said, the deadlift is a fundamental human movement that must be trained if you are aiming to maximise your strength development.[/quote]

fuking hate these replies " just deadlift " why even reply?

i came here because i wanted to see some arguments for and against the premise that you need to do certain exercise to get strong even if you’re already training and getting those muscles that are used in said exercises stronger.

my conclusion is that i should throw in some deadlift after squatting.

40

Well why wouldn’t you want to do the king of full body exercise? The ‘just deadlift’ argument is a valid one since almost every single strongman out there practices deadlifts so you should too.

It’s been mentioned before, if you wanna become stronger then pick heavy shit up. What other exercise have you lifting 400lbs+ using your shoulders, grip, lats, traps, upper/lower back, quads, hamstrings, etc.?

Why don’t you just squat and deadlift on separate days? If you’re only training 3-4 days a week then you can afford to make way for it…