I was watching the NBA game last night ‘hawks vs. cavs’. The series was quite boring especially the previous game. It was the fourth quarter and the cavs were poised for a sweep in the middle of the fourth quarter. The cavs were up about 8 with 6 minutes to go in the game.
My friend sitting next to me said “watch this”. I asked him, watch what? He said watch how rigged the NBA is to the trained eye. He told me watch how the Cavs won’t get anymore calls and the Hawks will get every single one. He told me to keep an eye out specifically for moving screens calls. He told me the hawks will get back into the game and it’ll come down to the last possession to make it more exciting. If you go back and watch the game that’s exactly what happened, only the hawks missed the last shot. Do you guys thinks all the major sports are rigged?
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I was watching the NBA game last night ‘hawks vs. cavs’. The series was quite boring especially the previous game. It was the fourth quarter and the cavs were poised for a sweep in the middle of the fourth quarter. The cavs were up about 8 with 6 minutes to go in the game.
My friend sitting next to me said “watch this”. I asked him, watch what? He said watch how rigged the NBA is to the trained eye. He told me watch how the Cavs won’t get anymore calls and the Hawks will get every single one. He told me to keep an eye out specifically for moving screens calls. He told me the hawks will get back into the game and it’ll come down to the last possession to make it more exciting. If you go back and watch the game that’s exactly what happened, only the hawks missed the last shot. Do you guys thinks all the major sports are rigged?[/quote]
Personally I believe they’re rigged. Some sports, like basketball, are just more obvious and easier to catch than others.
At this point I believe the real question is…Who’s ordering the rigging?
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I was watching the NBA game last night ‘hawks vs. cavs’. The series was quite boring especially the previous game. It was the fourth quarter and the cavs were poised for a sweep in the middle of the fourth quarter. The cavs were up about 8 with 6 minutes to go in the game.
My friend sitting next to me said “watch this”. I asked him, watch what? He said watch how rigged the NBA is to the trained eye. He told me watch how the Cavs won’t get anymore calls and the Hawks will get every single one. He told me to keep an eye out specifically for moving screens calls. He told me the hawks will get back into the game and it’ll come down to the last possession to make it more exciting. If you go back and watch the game that’s exactly what happened, only the hawks missed the last shot. Do you guys thinks all the major sports are rigged?[/quote]
Its possible that refs are slightly biased and that they are trying to influence the game, but that doesn’t necessarily mean someone higher up intended it. Maybe certain refs wanted the series to go longer just because more games to ref means more wages for them? I honestly don’t know the specifics of ref’s salaries.
As for the game itself, the dynamics can change near the end like that, maybe the cavs got nervous and started making mistakes, and maybe the kings really stepped up their game, I didn’t see it. Aside from their key players, the cavs are kinda weak (remember their loss the 76ers when LeBron was out?) so I could see dumb mistakes happening under pressure
If someone with a vested interest in rigging a game was willing to pay for it, paying off refs wouldn’t necessarily be a reliable way to do it. Paying off star players to take a dive or fake an injury would have the best success rate
I don’t believe that “sports are rigged” in the general sense. I do think that refs are instructed to call or not call various infractions depending on who the fouler and foulee are.
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Paying off star players to take a dive or fake an injury would have the best success rate
[/quote]
I’m going to disagree here. Star players have too much to lose eg: endorsements, reputation, HOF, hundred million dollar contracts, etc.
Football would be exceedingly difficult to rig as would baseball*. If I wanted to rig a sport, it would be basketball and I’d find a way to gain leverage over one of the guys on the bench, like the sixth through eighth guy. If he misses a couple shots, plays some sloppy D, no one is going to think twice except maybe his teammates and coach, and they might just think he sucks. He’s not rolling in dough the way the stars are and doesn’t have the endorsements either.
Unless you’re a pitcher or QB, you’re ability to influence a game is greatly diminished. And what could you possible offer a pitcher or QB to throw a game? These guys are already making beaucoup bucks. Only in basketball (or Hockey or Soccer) do you have players who play both offense and defense and who touch the ball enough to make a difference in the final outcome.
Personally, I think the position that would be most susceptible to rigging a game in the NFL (specifically, point shaving) would be the place kicker. No other single player has as much control over putting points on the board. If you pull a 41 yard field goal right, who’s to say you’re just not having a bad day. And you’re team lost by 6 so it’s not like the loss is on your shoulders (but your team was getting 3.5…)
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
I was watching the NBA game last night ‘hawks vs. cavs’. The series was quite boring especially the previous game. It was the fourth quarter and the cavs were poised for a sweep in the middle of the fourth quarter. The cavs were up about 8 with 6 minutes to go in the game.
My friend sitting next to me said “watch this”. I asked him, watch what? He said watch how rigged the NBA is to the trained eye. He told me watch how the Cavs won’t get anymore calls and the Hawks will get every single one. He told me to keep an eye out specifically for moving screens calls. He told me the hawks will get back into the game and it’ll come down to the last possession to make it more exciting. If you go back and watch the game that’s exactly what happened, only the hawks missed the last shot. Do you guys thinks all the major sports are rigged?[/quote]
Its possible that refs are slightly biased and that they are trying to influence the game, but that doesn’t necessarily mean someone higher up intended it. Maybe certain refs wanted the series to go longer just because more games to ref means more wages for them? I honestly don’t know the specifics of ref’s salaries.
As for the game itself, the dynamics can change near the end like that, maybe the cavs got nervous and started making mistakes, and maybe the kings really stepped up their game, I didn’t see it. Aside from their key players, the cavs are kinda weak (remember their loss the 76ers when LeBron was out?) so I could see dumb mistakes happening under pressure
If someone with a vested interest in rigging a game was willing to pay for it, paying off refs wouldn’t necessarily be a reliable way to do it. Paying off star players to take a dive or fake an injury would have the best success rate
[/quote]
I’m not sure if you’re aware but there was a former ref in the NBA that got caught up with the MOB and began fixing games. This was back in 2007 and his name was Tim Donaghay. After his conviction and prison sentence he spilled all the beans. He admitted that the league office dictated which team would be favored and thus you’d have a good guess on which team would win the game. Obviously the league denied these allegations but somethings gotta give. Also something that struck me very was Lebron James in the 2011 Finals. Specifically in the fourth quarter, he absolutely disappeared. Anytime he was questioned post game he always me mentioned that basketball is a two way sport and to look at the defense he was playing. No one seemed to go back and verify it but his defense was awful. He let defenders have a clear path to the rim. It seemed quite odd and it was said he had something personal going on.
On another note what about Dez Bryants overturned catch? We ended up getting a Sherman vs Brady matchup. The Seahawks were ready to blow them out and then all of a sudden they were flagged almost 6-0.
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
Paying off star players to take a dive or fake an injury would have the best success rate
[/quote]
I’m going to disagree here. Star players have too much to lose eg: endorsements, reputation, HOF, hundred million dollar contracts, etc.
Football would be exceedingly difficult to rig as would baseball*. If I wanted to rig a sport, it would be basketball and I’d find a way to gain leverage over one of the guys on the bench, like the sixth through eighth guy. If he misses a couple shots, plays some sloppy D, no one is going to think twice except maybe his teammates and coach, and they might just think he sucks. He’s not rolling in dough the way the stars are and doesn’t have the endorsements either.
Unless you’re a pitcher or QB, you’re ability to influence a game is greatly diminished. And what could you possible offer a pitcher or QB to throw a game? These guys are already making beaucoup bucks. Only in basketball (or Hockey or Soccer) do you have players who play both offense and defense and who touch the ball enough to make a difference in the final outcome.
Personally, I think the position that would be most susceptible to rigging a game in the NFL (specifically, point shaving) would be the place kicker. No other single player has as much control over putting points on the board. If you pull a 41 yard field goal right, who’s to say you’re just not having a bad day. And you’re team lost by 6 so it’s not like the loss is on your shoulders (but your team was getting 3.5…)[/quote]
I’d say that’s all mostly true. Do players really make enough though?
Anyway I’m not saying a player is approached with a blunt request to throw the game, but there might be more subtle/vague requests like “play a little easier/more conservative” or “seems like you’re hurt, maybe stay off your feet a little more”. Then they end up with a little after contributing little to a particular game
[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
On another note what about Dez Bryants overturned catch? We ended up getting a Sherman vs Brady matchup. The Seahawks were ready to blow them out and then all of a sudden they were flagged almost 6-0.
[/quote]
Doesn’t explain the NFC championship game result. SEA vs GB. Absolutely no question the NFL would much rather GB in the Superbowl vs NE, rather than SEA. And all the incredible things that had to happen in the second half for SEA to win, any one of them could have been blown by a bad call, or SEA not making a play - but didn’t.
I’d say that’s all mostly true. Do players really make enough though?
Anyway I’m not saying a player is approached with a blunt request to throw the game, but there might be more subtle/vague requests like “play a little easier/more conservative” or “seems like you’re hurt, maybe stay off your feet a little more”. Then they end up with a little after contributing little to a particular game
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Here are the salaries of the Bulls. From D Rose making $19MM to the tenth guy on the team making $1.1MM…how much could you possibly offer a guy to miss a couple extra shots and still make money betting the under/for the team not to cover?
There’s too much pride in the players and they make more than enough money that you can’t offer them anything worth marring their game tape. Every move they make is on film from ten different angles now, so a little tanking here and there will be noticed by every team in the league and negatively affect the player’s value in free agency and/or when personnel decisions are made.
When the Broncos were going on that spree of murdering teams when Manning first came to town, I remember the spread on the DEN-JAX game was like 40pts or something like that. There is 1 play that stands in my mind where a ball carrier was running up the middle and one of the linebackers didn’t even attempt to tackle him. He was right on top of him and made no effort to even put an arm out. I wish I could remember the players involved but I know it was incredibly fishy.
I don’t think it’s rigged. I think it’s the fact that they play 80 some odd regular season NBA games. I think the players are tired and they just go through the motions for 2/3 or so of the game. They don’t start getting after it until the 4th quarter. I think the same applies to the refs. In any game that you watch, playoffs or regular season, the refs call the game one way for the first 3 quarters and another way in the 4th. I don’t think anyone, players or refs, can maintain the intensity of the 4th quarter for an entire game.
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I don’t think it’s rigged. I think it’s the fact that they play 80 some odd regular season NBA games. I think the players are tired and they just go through the motions for 2/3 or so of the game. They don’t start getting after it until the 4th quarter. I think the same applies to the refs. In any game that you watch, playoffs or regular season, the refs call the game one way for the first 3 quarters and another way in the 4th. I don’t think anyone, players or refs, can maintain the intensity of the 4th quarter for an entire game. [/quote]
That’s nonsense. I don’t believe it has anything to do with fatique. Go back and watch the Cavs vs Hawks game 3 starting from the middle of the fourth quarter. I believe there were two moving screen violations and about 3 defensive fouls against the cavs. During this span there were zero fouls called against the Hawks. There was on play when Lebron drove to the hoop and and the defender was clearly holding onto his arm as he dunked the basketball. He didn’t get the call even thought it was clear as day. While on the other end the hawks were getting calls if any of the cavs even breathed on them.
The wide-lens, paranoid notion that “sports” are “rigged” is ridiculous. Usually, you’ll see conspiracy-theory fallacies and anecdotal chicanery trotted out – “look at this particular call on this day! It was a questionable call and it made the game far more exciting/set up an exciting match-up! Defs riggies!” Well, no. Refs and umps make borderline calls by necessity in every game and in every sport, so it stands to reason that some – even many – of these calls will have significant impact on high-stakes scorelines or match-ups.
Simple psychology also plays its part: say you’re calling balls and strikes behind the plate, and a guy’s one out away from a perfect game, in a 3-2 count, and the pitch is a beauty but it’s just a hair outside…right on the line, really. A questionable call, in other words. What do you do? There are a hundred different ways the psychological pressure might affect you, might put words in your mouth that, in the first inning, would have been different.
However, as has been noted, individual instances of paid-off refs, etc. have been well-documented in many sports.
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I don’t think it’s rigged. I think it’s the fact that they play 80 some odd regular season NBA games. I think the players are tired and they just go through the motions for 2/3 or so of the game. They don’t start getting after it until the 4th quarter. I think the same applies to the refs. In any game that you watch, playoffs or regular season, the refs call the game one way for the first 3 quarters and another way in the 4th. I don’t think anyone, players or refs, can maintain the intensity of the 4th quarter for an entire game. [/quote]
That’s nonsense. I don’t believe it has anything to do with fatique. Go back and watch the Cavs vs Hawks game 3 starting from the middle of the fourth quarter. I believe there were two moving screen violations and about 3 defensive fouls against the cavs. During this span there were zero fouls called against the Hawks. There was on play when Lebron drove to the hoop and and the defender was clearly holding onto his arm as he dunked the basketball. He didn’t get the call even thought it was clear as day. While on the other end the hawks were getting calls if any of the cavs even breathed on them.
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You base your notion that games are rigged on foul calls? Who really knows what a foul is anymore? The level of contact that is allowed gets to be more and more every year. It is creeping it’s way down to college too. The refs could literally blow the whistle on every trip down the court now if they call the game the way it is supposed to be called. It’s more like a game of 21 in the back yard now. No blood, no foul.
So, what about that game last night? I mean, was your friend sitting there saying “watch this” as Houston went on a run to make the game completely free of drama for the final 5 minutes after the Warriors had clawed back to a 4 point game from a 20 something deficit? I mean, the NBA rigs everything so clearly it should’ve stayed super close so that Harden’s 3 with 20 seconds to go would be more of a “holy shit” shot and less of a cap off to an amazing night.
NBA is rigged, but LAL, NYK, and PHI are absolute laughingstocks despite being mega markets. Chicago hasn’t made a finals since Jordan left, and San Antonio was a dynasty for a decade. These arguments are so tired.
I dunno… If you could get to a hockey or soccer goalie, that’s where you could really make a difference in the game. Maybe even more so than a QB and def more than a pitcher.
I’d say that’s all mostly true. Do players really make enough though?
Anyway I’m not saying a player is approached with a blunt request to throw the game, but there might be more subtle/vague requests like “play a little easier/more conservative” or “seems like you’re hurt, maybe stay off your feet a little more”. Then they end up with a little after contributing little to a particular game
[/quote]
Here are the salaries of the Bulls. From D Rose making $19MM to the tenth guy on the team making $1.1MM…how much could you possibly offer a guy to miss a couple extra shots and still make money betting the under/for the team not to cover?
There’s no way it would be worth it. That’s why you need someone like a ref to rack up some gambling debt.
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Oh c’mon players are only human. They got a lot of taxes to pay, and with that being so, I doubt they put all their money down on the fancy things they buy. So they still have bills to pay. Like a basketball players can’t rack up gambling debt? Or spend thousands on high class escorts? And since the payoff is for a request to basically just slack off a little bit. Lots of big names just slack off from time to time with seemingly little concern for how it is perceived by fans, and in fact it doesn’t even seem to be noticed by fans when it happens.