T Nation

Do You Approve?


#1

So I've been browsing these forums for quite a while now. Probably the last year and a half. I have read tons of "first cycle" threads and watched people get ripped hard. This isn't my first cycle however it is my first cycle adding any other compounds than test. I am 28 years old, 5'8 and 188lbs. Been training hard and consistent for 2 years and been meal prepping since january of 15. I am currently cutting but I am going to be switching to a bulk here in november. With this change I have decided to add some hormones to the mix as I think that I am finally ready. What I propose is as follows

weeks 1-12 test e 250mg x2 per week
weeks 1-10 deca 250mg x2 per week
weeks 1-6 d-bol 4 10mg tabs per day
weeks 1-12 arimadex .5mg eod
weeks 1-12 caber .5mg per week
10 days after last pin Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

Can test and deca be ran at the same doses? Ive seen a lot of stuff saying run your test 1.5 times higher than the deca and I've also see a lot of stuff saying it doesn't matter... People run the test higher because deca is incredibly suppressive but then people also saying the extra test doesn't make a difference.. I would like to keep the Test at 500mg a week because that is enough for me and I have seen great results on that dosage.
Im not incorporating hcg because I have never had any testicle shrinkage but what do you think?
Also, is this enough caber? I realize not everyone is effected by the prolactin suppression however, I don't want to risk it. I need my dick lol. Ive read take 1g caber per week and Ive also read take .5mg .
There is a lot of new compounds in this and I just want someone else's opinion. Im doing this in november so I have plenty of time to tweak my cycle


#2

Another old school cycle? What is it with deca? The shit’s only good for relieving joint pain. Other compounds will do everything deca does and more with less / more manageable sides. People need to move on from the 70’s and 80’s cycles of test / deca / dbol now that there’s so many better options.


#3

So do you suggest npp? Thanks for your help… Just because its “old school” doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Its tried and true.


#4

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
So do you suggest npp?

[/quote]

I like NPP because I like short esters and it’s a 19-Nor with similarities to tren. But Deca is a good bulking compound don’t get me wrong. It just seems almost everyone is going with deca.

[quote]

Thanks for your help… Just because its “old school” doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. Its tried and true.[/quote]

That’s true. It’s a very effective stack and I’m not saying otherwise.


#5

So would the dose be the same mg oer week but eod or e3d?
How does my pct sound?


#6

And with the caber - yes that’s plenty. I’m running 125mg tren ace ed + 300mg Deca(for joint pain) and .25mg Every Third Day keeps my prolactin totally suppressed. But I’m using pharma caber so be sure you can rely upon yours. Don’t buy some UGL crap only to find out mid-cycle it’s bunk and have to get a breast milking machine.


#7

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
So would the dose be the same mg oer week but eod or e3d?

[/quote]

Caber .25mg every third day is more than enough to keep prolactin totally suppressed.

[quote]

How does my pct sound? [/quote]

IMO? Shit. You need Clomid to stimulate FSH and LH. Clomid alone is fine but nolva alone is shit. I’d use HCG on cycle too if you want a smooth recovery and avoid testicular atrophy.


#8

Alrite man Ill look into clomid. The past pcts i did have been fine. I didnt suffer from any testicular atrophy but I was also running aromasin. Ill do some research on npp and clomid.


#9

Is your deca and test 1mg per ml? :slight_smile:


#10

[quote]gaintrain wrote:

Alrite man Ill look into clomid. The past pcts i did have been fine. I didnt suffer from any testicular atrophy but I was also running aromasin. Ill do some research on npp and clomid.
[/quote]

Nolva is fine for pct. Idk why youre being told otherwise.


#11

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Is your deca and test 1mg per ml? :)[/quote]

no. they are 250mg/ml


#12

lol i see my mistake now… fixed!


#13

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

Nolva is fine for pct. Idk why youre being told otherwise.
[/quote]

I put IMO because I know others will disagree. But Clomid is superior at kick starting HPTA in secondary hypo cases and it’s superior at raising FSH. That’s why it’s used as a fertility treatment much more commonly than nolva. It’s not that I was “told” this it’s that I discovered it from pouring through pubmed studies and so on.


#14

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

Nolva is fine for pct. Idk why youre being told otherwise.
[/quote]

I put IMO because I know others will disagree. But Clomid is superior at kick starting HPTA in secondary hypo cases and it’s superior at raising FSH. That’s why it’s used as a fertility treatment much more commonly than nolva. It’s not that I was “told” this it’s that I discovered it from pouring through pubmed studies and so on.[/quote]

I wish I could find it, but the explanation for Clomid over Nolva in fertility treatment was that Nolva had to be packaged for cancer treatment in women and was so superior that clomid was just left as a fertility drug for men so they could keep selling or something. I will try and dig it up.

I have had good results with just Nolva but I never tried Clomid.


#15

I think I am just going to go with what I have. Maybe Ill front load the deca and save the dbol for the last half of the cycle. Stick with nolva and add some hcg as well


#16

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

Nolva is fine for pct. Idk why youre being told otherwise.
[/quote]

I put IMO because I know others will disagree. But Clomid is superior at kick starting HPTA in secondary hypo cases and it’s superior at raising FSH. That’s why it’s used as a fertility treatment much more commonly than nolva. It’s not that I was “told” this it’s that I discovered it from pouring through pubmed studies and so on.[/quote]

I wish I could find it, but the explanation for Clomid over Nolva in fertility treatment was that Nolva had to be packaged for cancer treatment in women and was so superior that clomid was just left as a fertility drug for men so they could keep selling or something. I will try and dig it up.

I have had good results with just Nolva but I never tried Clomid.[/quote]

There’s a number of reasons I don’t like nolva. For one it lowers IGF-1 levels. For another it can cause blood clots. Even though lifters on AAS are active the raised hemoglobin / hematocrit and water retention etc are big risk factors.


#17

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
I think I am just going to go with what I have. Maybe Ill front load the deca and save the dbol for the last half of the cycle. Stick with nolva and add some hcg as well[/quote]

It’s a good stack. I’d take the dbol for first six weeks. Last six weeks I’d cut and drinks heaps of water, dandelion tea, celery capsules etc to shed water weight. Good luck.


#18

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
I think I am just going to go with what I have. Maybe Ill front load the deca and save the dbol for the last half of the cycle. Stick with nolva and add some hcg as well[/quote]

It’s a good stack. I’d take the dbol for first six weeks. Last six weeks I’d cut and drinks heaps of water, dandelion tea, celery capsules etc to shed water weight. Good luck.
[/quote]
What exactly do you mean youd cut the last 6 weeks? Im not changinf my diet for the last half of it. I appreciate your help! Dbol first 6 weeks. Its gonna be hard for me to wait until november.


#19

[quote]gaintrain wrote:

[quote]Androgenoid wrote:

[quote]gaintrain wrote:
I think I am just going to go with what I have. Maybe Ill front load the deca and save the dbol for the last half of the cycle. Stick with nolva and add some hcg as well[/quote]

It’s a good stack. I’d take the dbol for first six weeks. Last six weeks I’d cut and drinks heaps of water, dandelion tea, celery capsules etc to shed water weight. Good luck.
[/quote]
What exactly do you mean youd cut the last 6 weeks? Im not changinf my diet for the last half of it. I appreciate your help! Dbol first 6 weeks. Its gonna be hard for me to wait until november.
[/quote]

I mean cut. Yes I’d diet. I’m not sure what your goals are here but if you’re at all interested in aesthetics - bodybuilding - then you should clean bulk on dbol / test for six weeks then eat maintenance or a little above for last six weeks. You won’t make a lot of gains once you’re off the dbol so if you’re going to go 12 weeks why not clean up in the second half? You’ll have a lot of water weight to shed and it’s a good opportunity to shed some fat too.


#20

Ive been cutting since january. I planned on switchinf to a “clean bulking” diet in november when i started the cycle. I dont eat luke shit. I never leave home without my meals. I will figure something out tho. Drop some fats probably, matbe some oral winnie