Do This Routine Instead of That Dumb One

Going to be blunt here: Stick to the program as written, or do a different program.

If you are going to do THIS program, Stop adding in extra work. Stop changing things around. Stop over analyzing it.

The program is written the way it is for a reason. It’s not designed to have 6th days added in. Its not designed to have you doing extra work for a body part 4 days a week. It’s not designed to have you doing super sets, drop sets, extra sets, etc…

If thats the kind of stuff you want to do, find a program that is built for that. This one isnt it.

In terms of lagging body parts and body parts that are too built, I think way too much is made of this idea. Honestly, how big are your FRONT DELTS that they are “too big”?? Has ANYONE ever said to you “Man, you’re front delts are way too big!” … No. They havent.

Having said that… Be smart with your exercise selection. Pick exercises that will hit ALL your body parts, and not neglect areas. If you are picking exercises that DONT hit your rear delts, thats bad. But doing NOTHING but Incline presses makes little sense, because once you have stimulated the “upper pec” (which is honestly quite controversial) there is no point in picking ANOTHER incline press variation unless you happen to like it, or feel it hits the muscles better than a flat variation.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Going to be blunt here: Stick to the program as written, or do a different program.

If you are going to do THIS program, Stop adding in extra work. Stop changing things around. Stop over analyzing it.

The program is written the way it is for a reason. It’s not designed to have 6th days added in. Its not designed to have you doing extra work for a body part 4 days a week. It’s not designed to have you doing super sets, drop sets, extra sets, etc…

If thats the kind of stuff you want to do, find a program that is built for that. This one isnt it.

In terms of lagging body parts and body parts that are too built, I think way too much is made of this idea. Honestly, how big are your FRONT DELTS that they are “too big”?? Has ANYONE ever said to you “Man, you’re front delts are way too big!” … No. They havent.

Having said that… Be smart with your exercise selection. Pick exercises that will hit ALL your body parts, and not neglect areas. If you are picking exercises that DONT hit your rear delts, thats bad. But doing NOTHING but Incline presses makes little sense, because once you have stimulated the “upper pec” (which is honestly quite controversial) there is no point in picking ANOTHER incline press variation unless you happen to like it, or feel it hits the muscles better than a flat variation.[/quote]

Thanks for your answer!
I just gave an idea of adding a WPT day, but it will be an overtraining, I agree. And to see results we must stick to the program. For sure.

I will definitely look at the angles I’m doing to add more work for the weak points, but the workout will remain the same.

BTW, people tend to say that my traps are big… Comparing to neck or shoulders width, I guess I need to take a break for those.

Post a picture if you can. I have heard much talk of big traps making someone look “narrow” but I have NEVER, EVER seen someone with traps so huge it made them look small somehow. Big traps = fucking awesome as far as I am concerned. Even if this were ever an issue, I only imagine it to be one at the HIGHEST level of body building where the details actually matter.

I dont know about you, but having big traps and bowling pin forearms sounds like a problem I would love having.

Haven’t science proven that a higher frequence with a little less volume for each muscle is better then the good old 1 time a week with a shitload of volume?
The most of the studies i’ve seen in this area points to that for experienced lifters 2 times a week is superior to 1 and for beginners even as hight as 3 times a week.
I would love to hear your take on this.

[quote]Rawsteel wrote:
Haven’t science proven that a higher frequence with a little less volume for each muscle is better then the good old 1 time a week with a shitload of volume?
The most of the studies i’ve seen in this area points to that for experienced lifters 2 times a week is superior to 1 and for beginners even as hight as 3 times a week.
I would love to hear your take on this.[/quote]

People have gotten big training both ways. That said, lately I’ve gravitated more towards training each muscle group 2x a week on legs/push/pull and will most likely train this way indefinitely as I do feel I progress faster. My views on setting up training have definitely changed a bit since starting this thread.

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]Rawsteel wrote:
Haven’t science proven that a higher frequence with a little less volume for each muscle is better then the good old 1 time a week with a shitload of volume?
The most of the studies i’ve seen in this area points to that for experienced lifters 2 times a week is superior to 1 and for beginners even as hight as 3 times a week.
I would love to hear your take on this.[/quote]

People have gotten big training both ways. That said, lately I’ve gravitated more towards training each muscle group 2x a week on legs/push/pull and will most likely train this way indefinitely as I do feel I progress faster. My views on setting up training have definitely changed a bit since starting this thread.[/quote]

Ah ok:) Might i ask how your legs/push/pull looks like? Going to start with one after the cut im on and do it like this legs/push/rest/pull/rest/repeat.

[quote]Rawsteel wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:

[quote]Rawsteel wrote:
Haven’t science proven that a higher frequence with a little less volume for each muscle is better then the good old 1 time a week with a shitload of volume?
The most of the studies i’ve seen in this area points to that for experienced lifters 2 times a week is superior to 1 and for beginners even as hight as 3 times a week.
I would love to hear your take on this.[/quote]

People have gotten big training both ways. That said, lately I’ve gravitated more towards training each muscle group 2x a week on legs/push/pull and will most likely train this way indefinitely as I do feel I progress faster. My views on setting up training have definitely changed a bit since starting this thread.[/quote]

Ah ok:) Might i ask how your legs/push/pull looks like? Going to start with one after the cut im on and do it like this legs/push/rest/pull/rest/repeat.[/quote]

I think he has published it on the first pages.
But, maybe KB you have an updated version of your legs/pull/push workout?

Mon - Legs

Seated Calf - 4x15-20
Leg press calf - 3x10-15 (knees slightly bent, 1-2 sec squeeze and stretch on each rep)
Lying Leg curls - 4x10-15
Bulgarian Squat - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 4x10-15
SLDL’s - 4x8-12

Tues - Chest/Delts/Tris

Flat dumbbell - 4x8-12
Incline barbell - 4x8-12
Seated OH barbell (ass slid forward) - 3x10-15
1 arm up right row - 3x10-15
Seated lateral raises - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Decline close grip bp - 4x8-12
Rope pushdowns - 3x10-15
Lying behind the head extensions - 3x10-15

Wed - Back/Bis

WNG chest supported row machine - 4x8-12
WNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Shrugs - 4x8-12
Rear delt row - 3x10-15
Standing reverse cable x’s - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Pinwheels (meadows style) - 4x10-15
Machine “V” preacher curls - 3x10-15
Incline curls - 3x10-15

Thurs - Legs

Standing calf - 4x10-15
Donkey calf - 3x10-15
HS single leg curls - 4x10-15
Single Leg Press - 4x10-15
Squats - 4x10-15
Hack Squats - 4x10-15

Fri - Chest/Delts/Tris

Low incline dumbbell - 4x8-12
Flat barbell - 4x8-12
SHIPs - 3x10-15
Machine laterals - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Dips (weighted) - 4x8-12
Straight bar pushdowns - 3x10-15
1 arm overhead exts - 3x10-15

Sat - Back/Bis

NG pull ups - 50
CNG pulldowns - 3x8-12
CNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Reverse pec deck - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Hammer curls (both arms together) - 4x10-15
1 arm machine preacher - 3x10-15
Spider curls - 3x10-15

I’ll probably start rotating rep ranges when progress stalls, but for now making great gains and enjoying training with higher reps than I’m used to. Also, I’d say if you’re newer to just keep it to 2 exercises per bodypart with 3 ramped sets.

I have currently switched to flat barbel as my first chest exercise and was previously doing all dumbell work…since changing over 5 weeks my barbel bench has been decreasing week by week but only my barbel bench all my other chest exercises have been increasing… Aswell as all other bodyparts…this is why I stopped doing barbel bench but at the same time am noticing my chest is getting a thicker look but not as full as it was with dumbbells…ive been concentrating on form and technique but nothing seems to be working and now noticing my shoulder is starting to hurt…Is this my que to keep with dumbbells…I feels that I want to keep trying to progress on mu bench tho

Why do you want to keep progressing on the bench? Sounds like a bad exercise for you - Shoulder is hurting, Strength is going down, check is losing fullness… Why keep something like that in your routine?

I have a question for you guys.

Isn’t it bad to do arms the day before shoulders?You’re slamming your triceps two days in a row, and it will definetly make your shoulder press go down quite a bit.Is that more for chemically enhanced people? Just regurgitating what I have learned from others and experienced thus far.

My other question is, how do you guys deal with doing Legs the day after Back? I tried that one day because I couldn’t do my full body 1 day,had to split it, and had such terrible squat form and my squat went down the toilet because I did lower the day after upper. Thanks for the advice/tips

: )

Lonnie 100% agree but at same time I feel my chest side on thickness is increasing n I kinda feel bad leaving it behind…plus db only goto 140lb at my gym n I’m already up to 130 at my top set for 8 reps!! Tonight in going to be filming my form to see exactly what’s going on but just bit confused which way to go…plus I changed to barbell as I was hitting the db for about 9 months straight

Do you believe flat barbel gives your chest a different shape and build Lonnie

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I have a question for you guys.

Isn’t it bad to do arms the day before shoulders?You’re slamming your triceps two days in a row, and it will definetly make your shoulder press go down quite a bit.Is that more for chemically enhanced people? Just regurgitating what I have learned from others and experienced thus far.

My other question is, how do you guys deal with doing Legs the day after Back? I tried that one day because I couldn’t do my full body 1 day,had to split it, and had such terrible squat form and my squat went down the toilet because I did lower the day after upper. Thanks for the advice/tips

: )[/quote]

With this kind of routine, or any “body part split” where you are blasting your muscle so much it needs a week to recover, I really don’t see any difference in the order of days you use. YOU will have to decide what split works best for YOU based on what hurts when.

Aside from legs and back, EVERYTHING gets worked on an upper body day and vice versa. Does it make sense to put chest after shoulders? How about shoulders after chest? How about 2 days later when your chest might be so sore you cant even touch it? How much do your triceps come into play on pressing movements?

This stuff takes experimentation to tailor to your specific needs. When it comes down to certain questions, only one person can answer them… And its YOU.

As always… Try it for a month and see how its working.

Anthvi - I dont believe any exercise produces a different SHAPE to your muscles. Your muscles are your muscles, all you can do is make them GROW, or SHRINK. In theory you can hit different heads of this-or-that, or put stress on a certain portion using various grips/techniques/angles… But by and large you cannot alter the shape of a muscle.

As far as your bench problem goes, the only thing I can say is find a way to do it without pain, and in a way that stimulates the target muscles best.

That might mean: Regular Bench Press, Wide Grip flared elbows, Narrow Grip Tucked Elbows, Bench from pins, Reverse Grip, Machine Bench, Dumb bells, Nuetral Grip, etc…

You most definitely want to avoid exercises that cause you physical pain. This is NOT good and when allowed th accumulate = injuries and time OUT of the iron game. Not to mention they get in the way of your LIFE, which is a big part of why we do this as well.

The only other thing I can think of looking back at my log book is possibly I’m being to aggressive with my weight selections? And another thing I’ve got recorded is due to have a spot for barbell that I’m pushing beyond failure which now that I think bout it this could be causing me not to grow as I’m not getting the same 6-8 or 6-10 rep range…with dumbells I stop onthe rep I can’t get anymore ie I don’t push past failure! Could this be partly the cause of my bench progress Lonnie?

What rep are you stopping on? There is basically NO difference in stopping at 8 versus 10.Now, if you are stopping at 3, thats a bit different.

Again, I cant tell you what exercises and rep ranges will work FOR YOU. What you have to do is make ONE change at a time to your routine and evaluate it. This might be:

  • Sub out the bench for a different movement

  • Use a different grip/weight/angle on the bench

  • Increase the reps from 4-6 to 10-12

Make ONE of those changes, and then reevaluate after 2-4 weeks. Again, this WILL take quite a bit of time… But luckily for us we will be doing this our whole lives, so time is something we have plenty of.

Thanks Lonnie much aPpreciated will definitely give it a go

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Mon - Legs

Seated Calf - 4x15-20
Leg press calf - 3x10-15 (knees slightly bent, 1-2 sec squeeze and stretch on each rep)
Lying Leg curls - 4x10-15
Leg extensions - 4x20-30
Leg Press - 4x10-15
SLDL’s - 4x8-12

Tues - Chest/Delts/Tris

Flat dumbbell - 4x8-12
Incline barbell - 4x8-12
Seated OH barbell (ass slid forward) - 3x10-15
1 arm up right row - 3x10-15
Seated lateral raises - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Decline close grip bp - 4x8-12
Rope pushdowns - 3x10-15
Lying behind the head extensions - 3x10-15

Wed - Back/Bis

WNG chest supported row machine - 4x8-12
WNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Shrugs - 4x8-12
Rear delt row - 3x10-15
Standing reverse cable x’s - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Pinwheels (meadows style) - 4x10-15
Machine “V” preacher curls - 3x10-15
Incline curls - 3x10-15

Thurs - Legs

Standing calf - 4x10-15
Donkey calf - 3x10-15
HS single leg curls - 4x10-15
Leg extensions - 4x20-30
Squats - 4x10-15
Hack Squats - 4x10-15

Fri - Chest/Delts/Tris

Low incline dumbbell - 4x8-12
Flat barbell - 4x8-12
SHIPs - 3x10-15
Machine laterals - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Dips (weighted) - 4x8-12
Straight bar pushdowns - 3x10-15
1 arm overhead exts - 3x10-15

Sat - Back/Bis

NG pull ups - 50
CNG pulldowns - 3x8-12
CNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Reverse pec deck - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Hammer curls (both arms together) - 4x10-15
1 arm machine preacher - 3x10-15
Spider curls - 3x10-15

I’ll probably start rotating rep ranges when progress stalls, but for now making great gains and enjoying training with higher reps than I’m used to. Also, I’d say if you’re newer to just keep it to 2 exercises per bodypart with 3 ramped sets.[/quote]

KB What do you think of doing the same exercises on both days instead of creating 2 seperate days for the same muscle groups.

[quote]polished1 wrote:

[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Mon - Legs

Seated Calf - 4x15-20
Leg press calf - 3x10-15 (knees slightly bent, 1-2 sec squeeze and stretch on each rep)
Lying Leg curls - 4x10-15
Leg extensions - 4x20-30
Leg Press - 4x10-15
SLDL’s - 4x8-12

Tues - Chest/Delts/Tris

Flat dumbbell - 4x8-12
Incline barbell - 4x8-12
Seated OH barbell (ass slid forward) - 3x10-15
1 arm up right row - 3x10-15
Seated lateral raises - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Decline close grip bp - 4x8-12
Rope pushdowns - 3x10-15
Lying behind the head extensions - 3x10-15

Wed - Back/Bis

WNG chest supported row machine - 4x8-12
WNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Shrugs - 4x8-12
Rear delt row - 3x10-15
Standing reverse cable x’s - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Pinwheels (meadows style) - 4x10-15
Machine “V” preacher curls - 3x10-15
Incline curls - 3x10-15

Thurs - Legs

Standing calf - 4x10-15
Donkey calf - 3x10-15
HS single leg curls - 4x10-15
Leg extensions - 4x20-30
Squats - 4x10-15
Hack Squats - 4x10-15

Fri - Chest/Delts/Tris

Low incline dumbbell - 4x8-12
Flat barbell - 4x8-12
SHIPs - 3x10-15
Machine laterals - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Dips (weighted) - 4x8-12
Straight bar pushdowns - 3x10-15
1 arm overhead exts - 3x10-15

Sat - Back/Bis

NG pull ups - 50
CNG pulldowns - 3x8-12
CNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Reverse pec deck - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Hammer curls (both arms together) - 4x10-15
1 arm machine preacher - 3x10-15
Spider curls - 3x10-15

I’ll probably start rotating rep ranges when progress stalls, but for now making great gains and enjoying training with higher reps than I’m used to. Also, I’d say if you’re newer to just keep it to 2 exercises per bodypart with 3 ramped sets.[/quote]

KB What do you think of doing the same exercises on both days instead of creating 2 seperate days for the same muscle groups.
[/quote]

Tried it before and gains stalled much quicker. I feel like I progress faster this way and avoid discomfort due to working the same movement patterns again so soon. Variety and hitting different “angles” seems to be a good thing when the primary goal is hypertrophy. When my progress stalls on this I’ll probably add in a 3rd workout for each muscle group and have a triple rotation a la DC and train that way indefinitely.