I am just wondering how many of you train with groups and how many people in the group know you use? I went through the interesting convo of telling a couple of my good friends at training that I am about to run a cycle. They dont know about my previous more minor usage.
I train alone - always have.
The way i work it is; if someone asks in a way i find offensive/rude or assuming, i tell them SFA.
If they are down to earth, open and unassuming - i tell them i use.
I am not ashamed of it, but i don't open up to people if they cannot do the common courtesy of being polite about it.
I personally think it is obvious - and of those who both know me personally and have a fair amount of experience with AAS - they know without question too.
Mostly, people don't even ask - which is fine by me.
I don't tell people I train with, it isn't their business.
The more people you tell, the more people you know that can snitch.
Even when I'm to the point where it is obvious, it will not be discussed.
Unless you know for a fact that they do, too, or they are about to and are looking for your advice, I would keep my mouth shut as to my "supplement" regime.
The ones who will understand will figure it out on their own, and those who won't understand are going to believe you do or don't regardless of what you tell them.
What is the issue of telling people?
Is it because most people will judge you negatively automatically and you don't want to deal with that
or cos you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it's cheating?
I'm not being cheeky, i'm geniunely curious.
Yes they know and I dont think they care. Even asked me how one does it.
I would imagine it is a bit of both. Many guys that are the only one in their group that is on AAS may also be the most impressively developed, thus probably looked to most for advice. Advice on what to eat and how to do exercises etc... It might not look good if the truth came out, "oh yea that technique and exercise and diet tip you gave me, the same stuff that never worked for you, until you started on AAS, oh I get it, so NOW you know what your talking about"
I've never juiced, but I took Twinlab Andro Nitrate 3 (when it was around years ago) I didnt even take the whole bottle, nor even take it consistently, but the results were absolutely unbelievable.
I had people coming up to me saying, "Man, how did you get like that, I mean some people are big, and some are ripped, but you are both" Now this was a guy I didnt know and I didnt tell him, but I felt guilty as hell for the undeserved credit I was getting. I did tell my friends I was taking it though. I was at the point where you wouldnt assume that I was on for sure because I wasnt quite that big.
I went from 6'4" 214 to 233 in maybe 3 months. If I was on deca, my god man, talk about making things easy. I think it would be very rude to ask someone who is obviously on AAS if they are using. Its like asking a girl with huge perfectly round tits if they are implants. You are basically shaming someone you dont even know by asking them a question like that, I imagine there is a feeling of inadequecy somewhere, that you really havent done the work to look like you look. Maybe pro bodybuilders are more business like in that regard and dont care as much...
Some people I have talked to really get messed up mentally with juice, in that they begin to really think they could have achieved such good results without it, and that it really isnt helping that much. I wouldnt want to ask someone like that about being on.
For many people, they would be admitting to engaging in an illegal activity, one for which, if caught, your entire life can be destroyed (to the extent of losing your children, if CPS decides to take an interest).
This isn't reason enough and the only thing you could come up with is that steroid users have a complex?
There are other reasons, too, but the only thing you stated makes me feel it's not worth going into, your caveat aside.
Shadowzz4:- Not quite.
It isn't that there is a shame somewhere, or a deep seated inadequacy but simply that this is what people think is going on when a man uses AAS.
People like you. Those who have never had any experience (no, a twinlabs product is not quite the same punchy) yet think they somehow know what it is like, and are all too quick to voice that opinion.
As for undeserved credit - i can totally imagine feeling like that if you do a single cycle and you get credit on it that you didn't receive before OR after, or maybe if you ate crap and trained moderately and got great results leading to more compliments. THAT is undesererved i agree.
However for myself and the regular, developed and educated posters here, this is most certainly not the case - undeserved? You gotta be kidding.
Sure, if i looked great and did steroids but didn't live the disciplined life i do - then it may well be undeserved, but i have sacrificed many things in order to be as developed as i can be.
This doesn't just improve the physique, but the psyche too - the strict bodybuilder discipline and way of life is very impressive to me, and is a real sentiment to the power of will.
I however do not feel the same about some weekend warrior who spends his 20's juicing up and getting in decent shape along with the cocaine and lager, only to suffer serious ill effects later in life. Someone who then feels he has the right to slate the bodybuilding lifestyle. What would they know? really?
(however they are a couple of links above people like you in that chain IMO).
Sure, for those certain individuals (of which many post here) steroids allow one to train less and get more - however those who are serious about their goals do not use AAS for a free ride, but to get to a level far exceeding what could have been achieved with balls to the wall effort (in and out of the gym) naturally.
This (peak condition) is NOT possible with anything other than that max effort even on steroids - either way, to be the best (as you can be) you need to give it all.
Serious athletes use AAS to enable them to train harder and longer than one could naturally, yet still see results ie. not overtrain as easily.
The people that say "people are either big or ripped yet you are both" usually have no clue about the intricacies of physique training and diet, and honestly their opinion on the subject is worthless to a serious trainee.
For example in a group of natural bodybuilding friends who all compete on stage - it will be quite common for them to be both, all year actually. What does he know as he lives a life quite far removed from physique enhamcement either naturally or otherwise. SFA.
I wonder why someone whose information is clearly based on popular belief and misconception and with non actual personal experience is the one attempting to answer a question that is clearly directed at users of steroids?
It is called trolling, and it makes you a troll.
Lastly, before you try to come at me with the "hit a nerve" line - yes, yes you did. Because as a steroid user who works damn hard for every ounce of muscle i have, it pisses me off when i come to a place to talk to like minded individuals only to read an opinion that is held by every other fucker outside my front door.
And Wyldflower:- I've make it no secret i think you are a dick, but honestly even YOU are pushing it by asking (on this board) if
. And i suppose you still want to continue getting advice from those you are saying this to?
Actually scrap that, it was totally innocent wasn't it - you had no idea it would offend anyone here did you? i mean it doesn't count if you said you 'aren't being cheeky' - that means you can say what the fuck you like and no-one can rightfully get pissed doesn't it.
It is like saying "uh.. i don't mean to be rude but..do you feel mildly ashamed yourself cos you feel like it's cheating?"
YES, Yes you DO mean to be fucking rude. If you didn't 'mean to be rude' then you wouldn't preface your rude sentence with that disclaimer.
Thankfully this site is equipped as such to allow me to easily ignore fucking morons such as yourselves.
My training partners have also become my friends. It took a while before they asked or I offered but yes they know. However, I think the gym I'm at is quite a bit different than most. I would say we have a high percentage of people who use so it is somewhat openly discussed.
Look at your above quote and you will see exactly what I am talking about. Explain how my experience using a twinlab precursor has nothing to do with what we are talking about?
I knew what I was doing, enough to get great results with a substance far weaker than what you are using. I also did not use as good workout programming as I had done in the past, and did alot more with a whole lot less effort. My experience was that it was almost impossible to work hard (meaning how much effort it took to do things), because the substance provided that much of a benefit. It made things incredibly easy. And using actual juice, I would imagine, would make things even easier, since it basically has the same effect except stronger. Through this experience, I lost alot of respect for what those on AAS accomplish, and gained alot of respect for the drugs themselves.
Do you see above, where you say "Serious athletes use AAS to enable them to train harder and longer than one could naturally, yet still see results ie. not overtrain as easily."
Thats what I am talking about. While I do not think it near as bad as those young guys using AAS for a free ride, it is still an advantage of mammoth proportions. AAS allows you to train with an intensity, for a length of time that is impossible otherwise. It gives you a huge drive to want to train as well.
I have to tell you, I honestly have nothing against people using AAS, especially intelligent, hard working individuals such as yourself. But for christ sake dont deny what AAS does for you. So if I started a cycle, gained a ton muscle, strength, and drive through AAS, Im all of a sudden a bad ass hard worker where as now Im not? Is that the idea?
Dude its a fucking joke. Why cant you practice natural bodybuilding.
Look at these factors:
Hard work, determination, knowledge, AAS. These factors, among a few others contribute to your physique. Which one of these, if removed, would have the most negative effect on your physique? hmmm.....
I dont think anybody that has not done a serious cycle or 2 in their life should have much comment. I was always an anti-juice person, until a freid turned me on. What i thought i knew was bullshit, what i know now is more realistic. One does notice the use of others, unless your clueless and put no thought into what your doing. if you work out with someone regularly they ougth to know, if not then better left alone.
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No need to be so defensive, cortes. My questions were posed as they were because they are issues i'm dealing with right myself. Both the judgement of friends and colleagues who don't understand the nature of these drugs, as well as my own feeling of inadequacy tha I may be compensating for something lacking in myself.
I'm in the UK, so the legal issues really aren't of much concern, not as they are in the US at least. I don't pretend to understand the US system, but the CPD argument and having your children taken away sounds far fetched to say the least. Is there any case of a steroid user ever having his/her children taken away because of steroid use? If this is the case, i think it is beyond ridiculous. I know things got tougher over there, particularly since Bush Jr's term in office - but i still find it hard to believe that the legal penalties are that severe. Though you may correct me on that one. However, I do understand, that in terms of employment it IS a big issue and you can risk losing your job if found out, so with regards to that i can be sympathetic.
I'd also like to add that in terms of the bodybuilding fraternity, as a previous poster has said, it is perfectly legitimate and I doubt that anyone who competes in that pursuit wrestles with any of the issues I posed.
My questions are aimed more towwards the dedicated hobbyists and non-bodybuilding sports people.
I compete in MMA - not to any high level standard (yet), but I've been involved in the UK amateur circuits in both Muay Thai and Submission Wrestilng for some time. I know that there are great numbers of guys who use. But there also seems to be a code of silence amongst guys admitting to it. Just yesterday i was talking to a guy who was shredded as fuck, like i would guess he was hovering somewhere around the 6-8% bodyfat percentage. Without even being prompted he told me his body is "all natural mate". I find this particularly hard to believe as one of my training partners who admitted to me he uses, told me that both he and the so-called natural use the same source for their drug.
My own story is that i'm a guy pushing 30 whose never used any PEDs. I've only been training in combat sports for 5-6 years. Last year i was competing quite extensively in Muay Thai and doing quite well if i say so myself. Though this year i've knocked that on the head for various reason.
I'm quite proud of what i've done. The fact is that i'm the least genetically gifted person when it comes to "athletisism" of anyone i know. I was picked on in school for being weak and skinny. I was bottom set PE all my life - i was persistently picked last to be on anyones team my entire childhood life. Like from the age of 5-16 NO ONE wanted me on their team. That's not to say that i didn't try - my father was big into fitness and he pushed me as best he could, but i didn't cut the mustard.
I turned things around in my mid-20s and I have some regret that i didn't work as hard at this in my teens/early 20s, cos who knows, maybe "i cuda been a contender".
Since taking my sport so deadly seriously, i've researched a hell of a lot into sports science and sports nutrition - i'm talking PHD level texts. I'm a nerd at heart, but my reading led me into PEDs and AAS.
I have a reasonable understanding of the nature of these things and I know they are not a magic bullet.I have deep driven desire to push my potential as far as humanly possibly. I am also keenly aware that age inevitably takes its toll on the human body and our hormonal profiles change inevitably to the point of deterioration. I do think that being "on" whilst competing is unfair, and my desire to use would be during "off-season" and training. This is why i'm gearing up for a cycle either later this month or at the end of the month. It's experimenting ore than anything. I know full well that these drugs are not even a tiny bit of a substitute for hardwork. I know of several incidences in Muay Thai tournaments where the guy who juuices has lost fights to natural figheters - this happens a HELL of a lot. I wouldn't like to use them to give me an edge in competition, but to use AAS/PEDs to help me train harder and for recovery - and more than anything, to experiment on my own body, which is an area i'm naturally facinated in.
Earlier this year i embarked on three 50 day training programmes - training 6 days a week, 2 times a day. In the middle of all three i came down with pretty severe flues. Now, pushing 30, i feel my time is running out to compete at the elite level in this sport, and i would want to use these drugs to help me train as hard as i possibly can and aid in recovery. With a view to coming off when i start competing again (maybe a naive hope).
However, the code of silence at both my MT and wrestling gyms disturbs me. There is one guy at my MT classes who is open with me about it wheeras EVERYONE else claims they are "all natural mate". I find this difficult to understand - especially because most of the guys i train with DO NOT COMPETE.
Furthermore, i talk freely about these things with people. But it seems everytime i talk excitedly about my resaerch into AAS that every single person has the same dissaproving reaction. "Why do you wanna do that for? That's cheating that is, why not just do it naturally? Why do you wanna feel like a cheat? How shit will you feel?" (these are some of the things a mate of mine said a couple of weekends ago). I think the majority of people out there do not understand the nature of these drugs, and are grossly judgemental. I think this to a large extent explains the "code of silence" at my gym. This was the reason for my first question
I asked the second question, because i have sense that in this world, our culture and society believe that pepole are BORN talented. They value talent as something that is a "gift". I find that attitude repulsive. It completely negates all the hardwork, drive, determination and luck involved in success. But it's something that i grew up with, and maybe i too, at one point bought into this idea that unless you are BORN talented, then you have no right to be up there amongst the elite. This is a guilt that i'm dealing with, that somehow i'm cheating the guys who had the right genes to begin with.
My questions were personal and i was geniune in asking them, without accusing anyone here of having a "complex". I would be interested to know if anyone else here feels this. I know its different in bodybuilding, but even amongst bodybuilding hobbyists there is a stigma to deal with that the use of juice is like having plastic surgery - something fake and undeserved.
I asked whether people's discomfort with the being frank about AAS had anything to do with any moral issues. Because i think to deny that there is any moral argument surrounding steroids is grossly disingenious.
Thanks for reading.
Brook - why the fuck do you always have sand in your vagina?? You know what, go fuck yourself, i neither want not need your advice. Prick.
Yeah, see this is what i think it is for most people. All though i've gone to pains to tell my mum that i'm considering juicing, whilst i would never admit that to my girlfriends mum!
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Careful, most of us are on his side of arguments.
Yes i know, i value Brook's advice more than anyone's, well i value bushidobadboy's more... and Bill Roberts, but i think then it's Brook.
But he's really mean to me and i haven't done anything to him