T Nation

Do T Gels Not Elevate Hemacrit Levels?


#1

The doc has suggested topical T because my hemacrit has been high and I've lowered it by donating blood; however, the doc says I could become iron deficient. She claims topical t doesnt raise your hemacrit levels as much. I'm reluctant cuz when i first started with my primary doc i was on androgel and that stuff just lowered my t to .6 at the 3 month blood test.

Thats when she freaked and sent me to the endo. Has topical T ever been used with any degree of success? Its always the same story in forums that it doesnt work or just works at first. I never noticed much. I like the injections as they work well and no messy gel every morning.


#2

Have you checked your thyroid function?? Often we see people with subclinical thyroid problems don't absorb well!!

Injections would be your best bet a far as pharmaceuticals..

Do you know why you have low T?? If not you shouldn't be doing anything!!

Low T is. Symptom of a problem and not the problem!!

Read the advice for new guys sticky


#3

Whats a subclinical thyroid issue?


#4

Well, I've had an mri and my pituitary was fine. I have been obese most of my life and thats probably a factor. In the last two years I've dropped 70lbs of fat and I'm about 15 lbs away from being fit. I'm 40 now so age doesnt help.

I've never shown abnormal blood work on my thyroid. Thanks


#5

Well, I've had an mri and my pituitary was fine. I have been obese most of my life and thats probably a factor. In the last two years I've dropped 70lbs of fat and I'm about 15 lbs away from being fit. I'm 40 now so age doesnt help.

I've never shown abnormal blood work on my thyroid. Thanks


#6

this is a good question. I have heard the same about gels. i also know taking iron while taking testo can skyrocket RBC at least it did for me.. i have heard grapefruit can help keep RBC in check.. but i haven't tried yet.

i too would like to get higher test levels without spking RBC


#7

My hematocrit and hemoglobin elevated on both. Now - this is all from ZRT labs and my doctor - but their explanation in why creams elevate H&H is that their absorbtion is closer to 100% versus the 10% that most people claim. They say that serum testing works for injections but does not work for topicals as the testosterone accumulates in the capillary beds so you have to do capillary testing when on topicals. When I was on topicals my serum levels were around 500 TT, but my capillary levels were around 7,000 which seems to support this. Their argument is that standard dosing for creams equals supraphysiological dosing, leading to elevated H&H and explains the initial feel good followed by the crash as the T receptors down regulate.

Their view is that T dosing for most people should be no more than 10mg/day in order to mimic the normal production by the testes.

Take what you will from this - yet another reason my head spins with TRT!!!!!


#8

this is really interesting and confusing! all the big pharmas seem to be selling 20 to 120mg a day doses! i guess they make more money that way..? and that 10mg a day assumes that the patient is absorbing 100% correct?


#9

They say the rate of absorbtion is 90-100%. You wont find too many people that will go along with that view point but it is worth checking out just for your info.


#10

They say the rate of absorbtion is 90-100%. You wont find too many people that will go along with that view point but it is worth checking out just for your info.


#11

i have heard that too from compounding pharmacy.. but how do we check it out? i guess with a saliva test and go by how we feel? that could explain why androgel works for some people then stops if their T receptors have down regulated? a while back i was using a 10% compounded gel and my numbers only got up to 191 even when i increased the dose, so not sure what that was about. ?


#12

If I had stayed on the cream my doc wanted to guide my doses by continuing with the ZRT lab blood stick test. I got so frustrated with trying to figure out what was right that I switched back to injections because I figured at least then the standard blood test is widely regarded as accurate. However I guess in some ways it does make sense. If you apply a normal dose that the body was designed to handle then there shouldn't be an increase in hematocrit. However if the creams are absorbed as well as they think then it is obviouslymore than the body can handle. Perhaps some of us also can't handle the constant high normals from injections either and need the rhythm of high and low throughout the day like the testes would produce. Wild ass guess!!!!!!