Do Powerlifters Need to Rethink Conditioning?

I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?

Power lifters actually do higher rep work. Along with all of those forms of conditioning can both be non lactic and lactic anaerobic work.

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man.

Also, Joel Jamison knows his shit. I’ve gotten to talk to him a couple times and actually got to see him use the Omega Wave on a couple people. Now I want one… but don’t have 10 grand to blow on the entire system.

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man. [/quote]

Thanks, great reply. Joel really does know his shit. Although his book written in the context of training for MMA his methodology seems to be applicable to any sport, or just general health and fitness.

Joel’s view in his book is that the tabata study etc have been extrapolated out of context. That although HIIT may appear superior over the course of a six week study, people quickly plateau using HIIT and steady state is superior in the long run for aerobic development (in terms of cardiac output).

Also, HIIT predominantly results in concentric cardiac hypertrophy (which would also result from powerlifting itself). Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy is only effectively stimulated by lower intensity steady state training because the chambers of the heart don’t fully fill with blood above about 150 bpm.

I suppose the question is, aside from the general health benefits of eccentric cardiac hypertrophy, how important is it in the context of powerlifting?

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

I agree with what you say here.
While higher intensity work like HIIT, Prowler etc. where the lifter really pushes himself hard will develop the aerobic system somewhat, it isn’t as effective for improving stroke volume of the heart. It is also far more draining.

Lower intensity aerobic training is also good for promoting recovery and improving the parasympathetic nervous system.

Furthermore, the lactic system gets worked somewhat while lifting, particularly with assistance work.

IMO Cardio for powerlifting should:

  1. Not detract from your weight training - this is the most important part of training obviously.
  2. Improve the lifter’s ability to recover between sets (both in training and in competition) and training sessions.
  3. Make the lifter healthier in general.

Cardio can be done in any number of ways. Traditional powerlifting methods can still (sprints, prowler, sled etc.) just I think they should be done at a lower intensity (either less resistance, or modify the work/rest ratio) for a longer time. You shouldn’t be lying on the ground gasping for air at the end most days. Other options include jogging (if you’re light), walking fast or with a weighted vest or on an incline, tempo runs, cycling.

Of course, many people may not have time to do 30-45 minutes several times a week on top of their other training, in which case I think the best option would be short and intense.

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man. [/quote]

Also, HIIT predominantly results in concentric cardiac hypertrophy (which would also result from powerlifting itself). Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy is only effectively stimulated by lower intensity steady state training because the chambers of the heart don’t fully fill with blood above about 150 bpm.

[/quote]

Are you telling me that powerlifting will make my heart bigger??

[quote]MM-CK wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man. [/quote]

Also, HIIT predominantly results in concentric cardiac hypertrophy (which would also result from powerlifting itself). Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy is only effectively stimulated by lower intensity steady state training because the chambers of the heart don’t fully fill with blood above about 150 bpm.

[/quote]

Are you telling me that powerlifting will make my heart bigger??[/quote]

Yes.

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man. [/quote]

Thanks, great reply. Joel really does know his shit. Although his book written in the context of training for MMA his methodology seems to be applicable to any sport, or just general health and fitness.

Joel’s view in his book is that the tabata study etc have been extrapolated out of context. That although HIIT may appear superior over the course of a six week study, people quickly plateau using HIIT and steady state is superior in the long run for aerobic development (in terms of cardiac output).

Also, HIIT predominantly results in concentric cardiac hypertrophy (which would also result from powerlifting itself). Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy is only effectively stimulated by lower intensity steady state training because the chambers of the heart don’t fully fill with blood above about 150 bpm.

I suppose the question is, aside from the general health benefits of eccentric cardiac hypertrophy, how important is it in the context of powerlifting?

[/quote]

I think pretty important. As long as the progressions make sense and your total keeps going up in a meet. Thats really all that matters anyway.

Since we are talking conditioning, has anyone tried a sandbag? I’m 3.5 months past shoulder / biceps rebuild and I’ve been cleared for light stuff. I was thinking that the sandbag would allow weights from 0-120+. I’m looking at the Bruteforce sandbag in particular. It’s got 8 handles for a variety of grips and seems as if I could do everything with this bag. It seems to be the best one out there and is made right here in the US.

Thoughts?

[quote]MM-CK wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]Karl Hungus wrote:
I’ve just been reading Joel Jamison’s Ultimate MMA Conditioning and it’s got me thinking about the type of conditioning most people do for powerlifting.

Powerlifting is purely anaerobic alactic, the anaerobic lactic system won’t come into play in a 1RM, maybe a bit in training but anything below about 6 reps is going to be purely anaerobic alactic.

As far as I can see, in terms of the energy systems that need to be developed for powerlifting it’s the anaerobic lactic plus enough aerobic capacity to allow decent recovery and training volume… the anaerobic lactic system doesn’t come into play much for a powerlifter.

However, most of the conditioning recommended for powerlifting predominantly develops the anaerobic lactic system… dragging/pushing sleds, sprinting intervals, kettlebell swings/snatches etc.

This type of high intensity training doesn’t effectively develop aerobic capacity. For that you need to do steady state at 120-150bpm for 30m+… Intervals and intensities above 150bpm don’t effectively increase the heart’s stroke volume.

Why is the standard recommendation for powerlifting to develop an energy system that isn’t actually that important to powerlifting?
[/quote]

Conditioning for powerlifting has to accomplish 2 goals (excluding weight loss to be in a specific weight class):

  1. Fully recover between attempts at a meet
  2. To be handle to handle gradual increases in training volumes from competition to competition

Both of these goals involve a significant amount of anaerobic and aerobic qualitites. You are slightly mistaken when you say short bursts of intense work/circuits/intervals do not develop aerobic capacity. There are literally thousands of studies validating the EPOC phenomenon and intense peripheral heart action as being superior to traditional aerobics for developing aerobic capacity (in endurance and non-endurance athletes alike).

With all that said, no one modality will be what a powerlifter needs throughout the entire span of a training cycle to accomplish all of the conditioning requirements of the sport. This aspect of the program should be waved and periodized just like every other part of the regime. Longer time duration, lower intensity, more traditional aerobic based training should occur early in the cycle and the more intense work (prowlers, sleds, short & heavy barbell complexes) should occur closer to the meet because those modalities develop qualities that are more specific to the time under tension and force production requirements of the actual sport.

Good thread topic, man. [/quote]

Also, HIIT predominantly results in concentric cardiac hypertrophy (which would also result from powerlifting itself). Eccentric cardiac hypertrophy is only effectively stimulated by lower intensity steady state training because the chambers of the heart don’t fully fill with blood above about 150 bpm.

[/quote]

Are you telling me that powerlifting will make my heart bigger??[/quote]

From what I understand, anaerobic exercise including HIIT and especially lifting weights close to your 1rm with you breath held, will increase the thickness of the walls of the left side of the heart. It means the heart can pump blood more forcefully but it’s not necessarily a good thing for health.

Aerobic exercise increases the volume of the left side of the heart (it basically stretches it) so the heart can pump more blood with each beat. Which is a good thing for health, performance and recovery.

This gives a whole new meaning to the story “How the Grinch Stole Christmas”. Dr. Seuss was secretly teaching kids how to train.