T Nation

Do Newbie's Recover Slower?


#1

After stipping more than 35 lbs of lard with an almost no carb approach for 14 weeks I finally started my first clean bulking phase 3 weeks ago and my lifting has gone through the roof! My body has responded nicely however my recovery is agonizingly slow. I'm supplementing with zinc,magnesium,vit c,High Potency Multi Vit, BCAA's, Glutamine,creatine and fish oil. I worked my legs 3 days ago and they are SO f@cking sore still! I find that most of the week my shoulders feel like they're on fire! That makes me think that maybe I need to allow for more recovery time as I am still a begginer.

I have a 4 day split-
MON- CHEST/TRI'S
TUE- LEGS
WED-REST
THUR-BACK/BICEPS
FRI-REST
SAT-SHOULDERS
SUN-REST

Will my recovery begin to improve over time or is this a constant scenario that comes with with pushing your body to its limits during every workout?


#2

List what you did on leg day. You may be doing more volume than you need right now.


#3

4x 220lb squat
3x 352 lb squat (smith machine failed on 3rd)
3x 308 lb 45deg leg press
5x 390 lb calve raise on 45deg leg press
This is about 65% improvement in 3 weeks
I am 5f10 176 lb


#4

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
List what you did on leg day. You may be doing more volume than you need right now.[/quote]

x 2 check your volume

And if your shoulders are on fire maybe you shouldnt give them a full day, they may well be getting hammered enough with your chest and back workouts.

Maybe just add some over head pressing to the chest workout?

Bear in mind any new training program will make you sore to begin with but the body will adapt and recover faster so long as you are fueling it correctly


#5

[quote]SpiderDan wrote:
JayPierce wrote:
List what you did on leg day. You may be doing more volume than you need right now.

x 2 check your volume

And if your shoulders are on fire maybe you shouldnt give them a full day, they may well be getting hammered enough with your chest and back workouts.

Maybe just add some over head pressing to the chest workout?

Bear in mind any new training program will make you sore to begin with but the body will adapt and recover faster so long as you are fueling it correctly[/quote]

Would that approach excelerate growth or just make my life less painfull. I can handle the pain if it’s going to cause awesome growth but if it is hindering muscle growth due to inadequate recovery time I’ll take that advise.


#6

[quote]McMuscles wrote:
4x 220lb squat
3x 352 lb squat (smith machine failed on 3rd)
3x 308 lb 45deg leg press
5x 390 lb calve raise on 45deg leg press
This is about 65% improvement in 3 weeks
I am 5f10 176 lb
[/quote]

how many reps per set?

I would drop the smith squat and add Good Mornings for hamstrings.


#7

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
McMuscles wrote:
4x 220lb squat
3x 352 lb squat (smith machine failed on 3rd)
3x 308 lb 45deg leg press
5x 390 lb calve raise on 45deg leg press
This is about 65% improvement in 3 weeks
I am 5f10 176 lb

how many reps per set?

I would drop the smith squat and add Good Mornings for hamstrings.

[/quote]

12 reps standard for me
Why drop smith machine altogether? I have been pushing as hard as I can (but still have the commonsense to avoid injury) and finishing squats with the Smith machine is like a safety net for me.
Lol “add good mornings for hamstrings” doesn’t that pain mean growth is on it’s way??
I’m shrugging 5x 12 396lb (smith machine) and although it sets my trapps on fire they have exploded in growth.
Yet my bench press is still an embarrasing 154lb 3x 12 (then take off some weight)


#8

[quote]McMuscles wrote:
Would that approach excelerate growth or just make my life less painfull. I can handle the pain if it’s going to cause awesome growth but if it is hindering muscle growth due to inadequate recovery time I’ll take that advise.
[/quote]

Everything I’ve read about delayd onset muscle soreness is that it doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t mean you’re growing, or not growing. It’s most commonly a symptom of doing new excercise, and it’s actually from damage to fascia, which doesn’t really grow like muscle, but can still adapt.


#9

[quote]McMuscles wrote:
SpiderDan wrote:
JayPierce wrote:
List what you did on leg day. You may be doing more volume than you need right now.

x 2 check your volume

And if your shoulders are on fire maybe you shouldnt give them a full day, they may well be getting hammered enough with your chest and back workouts.

Maybe just add some over head pressing to the chest workout?

Bear in mind any new training program will make you sore to begin with but the body will adapt and recover faster so long as you are fueling it correctly

Would that approach excelerate growth or just make my life less painfull. I can handle the pain if it’s going to cause awesome growth but if it is hindering muscle growth due to inadequate recovery time I’ll take that advise.
[/quote]

Remember its not all about growth, shoulder health is damn important, im just kinda paraphrasing what Cressey said here

(point 6)

I’m a little worried when you say “pain” as if its a good thing, muscles should feel like they have worked but you shouldn’t be in agony.

best advice is to probably give it a few weeks, if your still walking wounded re-examine your routine. There is no need to feel like you’re destroyed for days on end.


#10

Oddly enough, training more frequently typically results in less DOMS problems.

If you are, relatively, a beginner, waiting a week between bodyparts may well be too long. I’d suggest training bodyparts 2x/week.


#11

[quote]McMuscles wrote:
4x 220lb squat

[/quote]

That’s fucking sweet brah…220 on squat. That means you loaded that bitch up with 25 - 10 - 5 - 2.5 lb plates on each side…instead of just throwing on two big wheels.

I love it…cuz I would do the same thing.

Come to think of it, this post is not constructive in any way.

Bango


#12

12 rep sets aren’t going to do much for your max strength. I just switched back off of 12 rep sets, and my max stayed the same, even though my 12 rep max went up by 15lbs.

Try switching to 3-5 rep sets to improve your strength. Your accessory work can be higher.

Ex.:
Squat - 5x3 with 80% of 1RM
Good Morning - 3x5-8
Leg press (or smith squat, if you prefer) - 3x8-12
Calf raises - whatever gets them to grow for you

Increase the weight by 5lb each week. 5x3 with 80% should be pretty easy. It’ll give you a couple of weeks to adapt to low-rep sets.

I suggested dropping the smith squats because you have three quad-dominant moves and no hamstring work.


#13

[quote]jimmybango wrote:
McMuscles wrote:
4x 220lb squat

That’s fucking sweet brah…220 on squat. That means you loaded that bitch up with 25 - 10 - 5 - 2.5 lb plates on each side…instead of just throwing on two big wheels.

I love it…cuz I would do the same thing.

Come to think of it, this post is not constructive in any way.

Bango[/quote]

Yeah your right bigfella!
I live in the country and don’t get the opportunity to train a HARDCORE gyms like you … I think I’m missing out on something…


#14

[quote]McMuscles wrote:
jimmybango wrote:
McMuscles wrote:
4x 220lb squat

That’s fucking sweet brah…220 on squat. That means you loaded that bitch up with 25 - 10 - 5 - 2.5 lb plates on each side…instead of just throwing on two big wheels.

I love it…cuz I would do the same thing.

Come to think of it, this post is not constructive in any way.

Bango

Yeah your right bigfella!
I live in the country and don’t get the opportunity to train a HARDCORE gyms like you you… I think I’m missing out on something…
[/quote]

Then you shouldn’t you be squatting like logs and shit? I picture the training scene from Rocky IV, even though that was Russia and not the country.


#15

Then you shouldn’t you be squatting like logs and shit? I picture the training scene from Rocky IV, even though that was Russia and not the country.[/quote]

Can you please hijack somebody elses thread
Why subscribe to “begginers” forums only to shoot then down you big man you…


#16

Ok so this thread went from some dude asking for help, to some matchstick looking Brit telling someone to quit if it burns a little (you’ve obviously never done 5x20 on Legpresses, anyone who has will know what I mean when I say it feels like your hammies and quads are about to rip in half), to J trying to help the guy to someone who does not realize that DMS and soreness in general is a direct result of your body not having any lactate acid threshold and micro tears associated with normal weight training (which putting blood into it by way of calisthenics actually helps in the healer because red blood cells carry nutrients ) to some guy posing in the mirror being a tard who most likely takes the sisseh way out with leg-exstensions.

To the OP, I’d take J’s advice as well as Bill’s and go a step further, drop the legpresses and good mornings and do deadlifts, there’s more muscle recruitment involved which equals more calories burnt for a larger deficit if your trying to diet down, more growth hormone and test released which will give you more overall benefit and you’ll have less of a chance to tear or pull one of the many supportive tissue/muscle in your lower back that’s commonly associated with goodmornings.

So something like, A,B,Off,C,Off,and then do Calisthenics and HIT on D to reinforce fatloss and push your lactate acid threshold higher

And to Bango, stop being a twat, THIS IS THE BEGINNERS Area and he’s just starting.


#17

Well, I was assuming he did DL’s on back day, but that may have been a mistake…


#18

I didnt see it, which goes back to what you said about the hammies. Olympic Deadlifts are hamstring kings if you extend back into a full shrug and flexout the glutes/hams like you would if you were doing Stiffleged Deadlifts. So to the OP, give ya hamstring some love lol.


#19

First of all, thanks guys for your advise as it is as always highly appreciated.
Two days ago increased my deadlift (yes I do them on back days) weight from 5 x 174lb x 12 to 6 x 220lb x 12 and my and back felt like its swollen yesterday and today… Just f@ckin sore.(only muscular) One month ago I simply couldn’t squat at all so please tell me if I am increasing the weight before my body can handle it. The reason why I have been training like this is because the first time I trained my calves I trained with a friend who is more experienced than me and I used similar weights/reps that he used.Two days later I was really sore BUT on the third day I went to work and later that afternoon my calves suddenly CRAMPED UP and I literally couldn’t walk for about two days, however they quickly grew back HARD and within a few weeks I was doing calve raises that my more experienced friend would not even attempt and I now get lightning fast recovery.
I just thought I would apply this method on the rest of my body and see what results I get.

A few things I want to clear up-
What are Goodmornings?
Give my Hammies some love… How??? Yes I am such a newbie… I must admit,although I train at 100% everytime…Being a former fatboy most of my mental energy has been applied to researching diet and nutrition. It’s only now I’m getting into the fun stuff!
Also I worked my legs 4 days ago and my back 2 days ago… The idea of doing them twice a week almost brings tears to my eyes!
Like my calves …Do you think that my body follow suit eventually as training bodyparts twice per week couldn’t really fit into my work schedule anyway.


#20

Goodmornings essentially you bending down to pick something up off the floor but only keeping your legs straight and essentially only using your back to bend. You can do the movement with a barbell held in squat fashion or with picking up dumbbells but the latter is more of a substitute for gyms without a surplus of barbells.

And when I say give your hamstring’s some love, your leg day looks decent enough but you should put goodmornings on your back day and your deadlifts on your leg day, the reason being is that deadlifts while yes they work your back it its only minimally, it works them in the same fashion it works your biceps, and the tendons and ligaments involved in picking up anything heavy.

A second option would to be doing walking Lunges for your hamstrings, but remember to keep your front and back leg at 90 degrees when you drop into the lunge to get rid of any risk of injury by use of improper form.