Do More Cardio

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]DPH wrote:

no one…natural or not…NEEDS to do cardio to get lean…

for instance…for me to reach my target goal of leaness I’m going to diet for 16 weeks…my diet is great but I still need to burn off another 300 calories a day…I could walk (cardio) everyday until I burn 300 calories, but I could also not do any cardio and just pop an appropriate amount of HOT-ROX…

[/quote]

I agree. But that doesn’t mean some form of cardio is not the better option for a lot of people. At some point, 300 calories of some form of cardio/ESW on off days very might well be preferable than dropping 300 calories. Assume the person already takes HOT-ROX

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Brenzo wrote:

Look at the physiques of sprinters - they are lean, strong and they do cardio, many times a week.

They do short intense training for their sport. This is nothing like jumping on a treadmill for 30min at a time of nonstop all out running.

Cardio, for the most part, is overrated. If you aren’t losing fat from your diet alone first, you are already screwing up. Also, my goal is to be much bigger than the average sprinter. Hell, I am as it is. Not everyone is ONLY trying to look like a sprinter. Some of us have goals of carrying more size than that and all out daily cardio would work against that. Those sprinters don’t even train like that. They SPRINT.[/quote]

So, your form of cardio could be sprinting (200 or 400 meter repeats) if you choose to employ it once you start to lean out. Cardio is a broad term. It doesn’t have to be continuous slower aerobic work.

23

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Brenzo wrote:

Look at the physiques of sprinters - they are lean, strong and they do cardio, many times a week.

They do short intense training for their sport. This is nothing like jumping on a treadmill for 30min at a time of nonstop all out running.

Cardio, for the most part, is overrated. If you aren’t losing fat from your diet alone first, you are already screwing up. Also, my goal is to be much bigger than the average sprinter. Hell, I am as it is. Not everyone is ONLY trying to look like a sprinter. Some of us have goals of carrying more size than that and all out daily cardio would work against that. Those sprinters don’t even train like that. They SPRINT.

So, your form of cardio could be sprinting (200 or 400 meter repeats) if you choose to employ it once you start to lean out. Cardio is a broad term. It doesn’t have to be continuous slower aerobic work.
[/quote]

I plan on doing both longer low intensity cardio (walking on an incline) combined with alternating HIIT for shorter periods. The point is, it seemed like this thread was applauding cardio as the necessary add-in to all training programs. Sprinters look the way they do because they DON’T do long sessions of endurance-type cardio. That should be a huge hint in itself.

If someone is dieting, their first place to see results should be their diet. If they are gaining, unless they have a very slow metabolism, too much cardio can definitely decrease gains in musle mass.

It seemed as if some people really didn’t have the goal to add much muscle in the first place making blanket statements about what everyone should do.

24

[quote]JJJJ wrote:
The bottom line . . . I think most weight-lifters would benefit from adding increased cardio.
John[/quote]

Not as much as people doing nothing but cardio would benefit from lifting weights.

25

[quote]SKman wrote:
JJJJ wrote:
The bottom line . . . I think most weight-lifters would benefit from adding increased cardio.
John

Not as much as people doing nothing but cardio would benefit from lifting weights.

[/quote]

Agreed.

But not as much as people doing nothing adding cardio and weight lifting.

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Brenzo wrote:

Look at the physiques of sprinters - they are lean, strong and they do cardio, many times a week.

They do short intense training for their sport. This is nothing like jumping on a treadmill for 30min at a time of nonstop all out running.

Cardio, for the most part, is overrated. If you aren’t losing fat from your diet alone first, you are already screwing up. Also, my goal is to be much bigger than the average sprinter. Hell, I am as it is. Not everyone is ONLY trying to look like a sprinter. Some of us have goals of carrying more size than that and all out daily cardio would work against that. Those sprinters don’t even train like that. They SPRINT.

So, your form of cardio could be sprinting (200 or 400 meter repeats) if you choose to employ it once you start to lean out. Cardio is a broad term. It doesn’t have to be continuous slower aerobic work.

I plan on doing both longer low intensity cardio (walking on an incline) combined with alternating HIIT for shorter periods. The point is, it seemed like this thread was applauding cardio as the necessary add-in to all training programs. Sprinters look the way they do because they DON’T do long sessions of endurance-type cardio. That should be a huge hint in itself.

If someone is dieting, their first place to see results should be their diet. If they are gaining, unless they have a very slow metabolism, too much cardio can definitely decrease gains in musle mass.

It seemed as if some people really didn’t have the goal to add much muscle in the first place making blanket statements about what everyone should do.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. I think cardio can be overdone. In my mind, it’s main purpose should be to speed fat loss. The main focus should still be diet and weights. But I think it is necessary for many to do some cardio to ultimately get lean once they’ve achieved solid size and are ready to diet down.

There are also many benefits besides body composition. And it’s fun. I love a nice sprint workout or good run or bikeride. And playing sports. For me, it was a sacrifice to greatly limit it so I could gain the muscle I wanted to. Worth it. And I’m going to continue to gain strength and size. But once I’m ultimately maintaining, I will play more sports and do more cardio than I can wisely do now.

27

[quote]SKman wrote:
JJJJ wrote:
The bottom line . . . I think most weight-lifters would benefit from adding increased cardio.
John

Not as much as people doing nothing but cardio would benefit from lifting weights.

[/quote]

Of course! No one can argue with that.

28

WOW, this thread got pretty interesting, fast.

There have been a lot of good points already, so there’s not much more I can add.

I did notice that 3 1/2 years ago (I know, I brought up the “3 years ago” thing a lot already, but it’s been a while) I was doing what many would consider too much cardio for gaining mass.

I was working out for 45min, 3 days a week, on an empty stomach. I was going at a fast pace (hr 170-175) for the majority of the 45min. At that time I was the leanest I’ve ever been, around 8%bf (24%bf is the worst I’ve been and I’d say I’m around 17% now).

I was also at my strongest lb for lb at 148lbs, benching 335, deadlifting 425 and squatting 415 with just a belt and wrist wraps. As far as mass was concerned, well, I was 148lbs. I had much less muscle than I do now.

I’m now trying to find a happy medium (geared more for mass) by doing heavy compound movements, with some direct muscle work, and I’ve cleaned up my diet considerable (as recommended by Professor X) and have been doing my GPP or jogging on a treadmill (as Nate Dogg has reminded me).

There is a reason that the strength coaches add in some sort of ESW, depending on how much your workout is going to affect your CNS. CW says to add GPP or slow to moderate cardio for 20-30 min for a lot of his routines on off days, and CT described the benefits that short interval sprints can have, even when the goal is to gain muscle.

Going back to Tom Venuto’s writings, he seems to favor cardio more than most, but he also takes each individual’s body into consideration. He recognizes that some may need very little to no ‘cardio’, and others may require cardio 6-7 days a week (but that’s in his fat loss articles).

I guess the point is to see what works best for your goals in your body. If you’re gaining muscle, but are gaining more fat than you’d like, you can try adding in some type of ESW and see how your body reacts. If you notice that you’re not gaining muscle as fast, then you can reduce the amount or change the type of ESW, and also look at your eating and training routine.

Sorry for the long winded post…

29

i’m with DPH and PX here.

“cardio” is a bad term. period. when i hear cardio, i think jogging, sitting on a stationary bike, wasting away on a stair stepper, etc … for 20 or more minutes.

that being said and set aside, why do you already not fat mother f*ckers think you know so much about this?

fat loss for the fat guy:
VERY elevated heart rate alternated with rest periods repeated frequently. best done with weights, otherwise there is TOO much activity.

granted, some things work better for some people … “to each his own” … but go to the gym … find the fat people, and notice what they are doing … find the muscular lean people and notice what they are doing

this topic f*cking irritates me

Bastard

30

[quote]BFG wrote:
this topic f*cking irritates me

Bastard[/quote]

Well fck you for being fcking irritated bastard!!!

HA!!!

You like the play on words you fat bastard?? :wink:

31

While this topic is good, the words can be misleading right. Talking about the use of the word cardio. While most of the T-Nation understands that cardio covers a wide variety of ways to receive cardiovascular benefit, the general public sees cardio pertaining to only aerobic exercise. Today’s interview with Mr Cosgrove briefly talks about this general acceptance.

32

[quote]Brenzo wrote:
Look at the physiques of sprinters - they are lean, strong and they do cardio, many times a week.[/quote]

I’ve actually been around a few world-class sprinters and none of them did what I would ever call “cardio.”

33

[quote]chubs108 wrote:
While most of the T-Nation understands that cardio covers a wide variety of ways to receive cardiovascular benefit, the general public sees cardio pertaining to only aerobic exercise. [/quote]

Actually, steady-state aerobic activity is widely accepted in exercise science to be cardiovascular (cardio) exercise.

While sprinting and other short duration activities can be beneficial, they are not “cardio.”

34

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
chubs108 wrote:
While most of the T-Nation understands that cardio covers a wide variety of ways to receive cardiovascular benefit, the general public sees cardio pertaining to only aerobic exercise.

Actually, steady-state aerobic activity is widely accepted in exercise science to be cardiovascular (cardio) exercise.

While sprinting and other short duration activities can be beneficial, they are not “cardio.”[/quote]

They are not aerobic. They are mostly anaerobic. But they are still cardio. It’s all semantics anyhow. Call it energy systems work if you like. Most people were viewing cardio quite broadly when responding here.

35

While cardio for fat loss may/may not be beneficial, I find myself stuck in a conundrum. I love cycling. I love to sprint all out on the bike and try and hit a new top speed; I love to sprint up hills people fear; I love the freedom to roam for miles. More recently I’ve added running and swimming to the mix, both of which are great fun. As much as I enjoy this though, I also want to be a goliath in the gym as I love the feeling of ripping that PR deadlift off the ground. These aspirations seem contradictory though.

If someone could figure out how I can do it all, please let me know :slight_smile: I really couldn’t care about cardio for fat loss, its more of a favorite pastime (just like weight lifting).

36

excellent thread! I was just gonna trow one out there- do you measure fittness buy leanness or buy some other indicators such as resting heart rate perhaps? in my opinion, humble as it is, anyone who can run 5k under 20min is in good shape and if he/she can deadlift twice the bodyweight is awesome! just my 2c

37

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
DPH wrote:
JJJJ wrote:
I don’t think lifters should go out and run 20-30 miles per week (Long Slow Distance).

But they should do at least 3-5, 30 min, high intensity sessions per week. You can do just about anything. Some guys beat on rubber tires with sledge hammers or heave sandbags around. I punch a heavy bag, I row and I swing a kettlebell. If my knees can stand it, I do hill sprints and/or Step-Ups on a decline bench.
John

is heaving heavy sand bags and running sprints cardio?

I guess I’ve gotten used to the term ‘general physical preparedness’ or GPP for that kind of stuff…

I think the idea that somehow cardio is a prerequisit for low body fat is a myth…shit, there are people that don’t exersize at all and have low bodyfat levels…

I do think that GPP is a good idea for most lifters though.

I believe the natural athlete or bodybuilder needs to do some sort of cardio or GPP to get lean. Weight training and diet alone are not enough unless you are genetically gifted to be lean with only weights and diet. The average person will need some sort of cardio or GPP. Or as CT calls it, Energy Systems Work (ESW).

Just move and be active. It doesn’t have to be a huge amount of activity.

[/quote]

Hey, I run 40+ miles a week and it’s not long slow distance (for the most part). I agree though, running a max of 20 miles is what lifters should do. I believe the 3-4 range for every other day works. Problem is, you don’t want the Type I fibres to predominate in the legs…just find that healthy balance.

38

I’ve read that you body gets used to the type of cardio you do (ESW whatever you want to call it). Just like doing the same lifting program too long, once you adapt, you stop making gains, weather the ‘gains’ are muscle mass, or the loss of fat, or the gaining of cardiovascular ability.

I’ve also seen this happen while in the Navy. There would be some old fart Master Chiefs who got so adapted to running long distances, quickly, they were out running the 19 year olds who excelled at running, yet they still had some big beer bellies.

I think it’s a good idea to change up the kind of cardio (ESW) that you do periodically, including doing the kind that you might not like very much (just like powerlifters can stand to gain using light weight high reps, though that shouldn’t be the majority of their training).

39

[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
I’ve read that you body gets used to the type of cardio you do (ESW whatever you want to call it). Just like doing the same lifting program too long, once you adapt, you stop making gains, weather the ‘gains’ are muscle mass, or the loss of fat, or the gaining of cardiovascular ability.[/quote]

Your body does adapt to the same cardio done over time. This is one reason that HIIT is still touted as one of the better techniques, because it allows at least some variance. I have also seen some of those older soldiers you mentioned who claim they can outrun everyone yet look more out of shape than anyone they run with. Bodybuilding isn’t about how far or how fast you can run. If that becomes your goal, then you need to realize that there is an increased chance of one suffering.

I don’t know many people who make endurance running their main priority who look anything like I would want to look. “Health” is also a subjective term and running alone does not indicate who is more fit.

40

Has no one even read my previous post re: peripheral vs central adaptations in comparing resistance vs cardiovascular exercise.