I’m not even going to continue arguing. That’s it. I’d like to keep this going, but I know that it won’t get anywhere for either of us. I know that there is nothing that will change your mind on anything, so there is little point in continuing this discussion.
I’d appreciate it if you left my thread. You have nothing to contribute here.
Thanks.
ctastrophe - if you don’t feel you have any symptoms that could be related to hypothyroidism then I would not recommend any additional tests - why waste your time/money? You can check out a list of possible symptoms at Long Pathetic List of Hypothyroid Symptoms - Stop The Thyroid Madness if none of them apply then just skip it.
It is my own opinion that hormones, thyroid, and andrenal systems are all interconnected and problems with one have a significant impact one the others. So it seems to me that people with hormone imbalances do seem to have a higher likelhood of having thyroid or adrenal issues. which seems to be backed up by multiple personal stories here and on other forums. You can also check older posts by KSman and several others who mentioned this wayyyy before me.
The reason I mention possible thyroid issues to posters is that many people seem to put on blinders and become hyperfocused about treating one specific symptom from one possible cause and they (and most likely their doctor) overlook a relatively easy to diagnose and fix system (the thyroid). you get a couple of tests that (if you got the right tests) can easily and quickly confirm or refute potential thyroid concerns.
I read the list of symptoms on that site and the only ones I seem to have are the ones that over-lap with Low T symptoms. Most of the list doesn’t apply to me, but I am sufficiently paranoid that there’s a chance you could be right. I think it is really unlikely that I have thyroid issues, but I’d rather get tests for no reason than not get tested and have something wrong with me. It won’t cost me any money, just some time and some blood, and I have plenty of both.
You are right that there are many people who focus on one particular pathology and don’t look into other stuff, and I don’t fault you for making people aware of potential issues there - the way I said what I said was probably more knee-jerk than anything else. I’ll get the tests and let you know how it goes.
for the tests you are looking for IDEAL Levels of:
FT4 1.1 to 1.7 ug/dL
FT3 3.3 to 3.9 pg/mL
RT3 <12 ng/dL
8am C0rtisol > 15 ug/dL
[quote]PureChance wrote:
for the tests you are looking for IDEAL Levels of:
FT4 1.1 to 1.7 ug/dL
FT3 3.3 to 3.9 pg/mL
RT3 <12 ng/dL
8am C0rtisol > 15 ug/dL[/quote]
All this information of having high thyroid of in top 1/3 range while on thyroid meds is putting people in hyper thyroid mod while stressing hell of the their adrenals , You have to look at it from standpoint of HRT. You have a trough and a ceiling. This need to be taken into consideration as the peak if using NT thyroid will be much higher after application then using T4 only. Again one needs to go by symptoms rather then lab results, but with anything there is a yang vs yin aspect to the thyroid and adrenals which needs to be highly considered. Coritsol in serum is pretty much invalid assay, but it does give some what of an idea of what is going on. Lab corp has 4 point saliva cortisol test which comparable to ZRT, genova, and few other respectable labs.
Long story short:
I had to see a new Endo, because the one I was seeing basically said he didn’t care about my symptoms, and that I was fine because my numbers look good.
New Endo was happy to up my Cyp dose to 75 because he cared far more about how I felt than what number of mg I was injecting. (Doctors like this are few and far between!) He did feel that I may have thyroid issues (stop smirking PureChance) because I am barely below the (according to him) max of 2.5, so he ordered the above tests to make sure.
If I do have hyper(or is it hypo with high TSH?)-thyroidism, and I start getting treatment for that, does that mean I will no longer need Testosterone replacement, or would the two treatments be complementary?
Obviously we won’t know what’s going on until those tests are done, the hardest of which will be getting up at 8 in the morning.
o.O
is a slightly raised eyebrow ok?
fixing your thyroid could hypothetically fix your hormonal balance, but I wouldn’t count on it. The treatments are complementary.
The three primary interconnected systems seem to be (imo) adrenals, thyroid, and hormones. cortisol is the most important to balance/fix first, then thyroid, then hormones. since most people jump into HRT too quickly they put too much demand on their adrenals which in turn causes problems with their thyroid.
high TSH is because your thyroid is not functioning correctly (your pituitary is yelling out louder and louder by making more and more Thyroid Stimulating Hormone to get a response) and it is called hypothyroidism.
low TSH (no signal) and high FT4/FT3 is hyperthyroidism. your thyroid is pumping out T4 even though you body is telling it to slow down.
HANS - i completely agree about going off of symptoms and not chasing numbers, the reason I give the values is to give people ammunition so that they can push back if they are feeling bad and their doctor is saying well your tests came back within ‘normal’ range so there is nothing wrong with you.
I also like the saliva tests, but it is hard enough to convince doctors to test for cortisol let alone a saliva test that 95% don’t even know exists - so I push the blood test version. If the results come back at < 15 for an 8am test or all other primary avenues are checked and exhausted, then a saliva test is helpful… of course if you have an enlightened doc, then by all means, get a saliva test at the beginning… could help shorten your journey by months or possibly years of fruitless searching.
I’m getting the tests done in the morning.
I have a feeling that this is the doctor that every TRT patient dreams of. He offered to double my Cyp dose from 100mg to 200mg if I wanted to, but I said let’s try 75mg 2x week, and he said “that’s fine”. I guess he’s been in the TRT business for like 30 years and isn’t afraid of the stuff like most doctors. I won’t have to push for anything with this guy unless I’m being unreasonable, or down right stupid.
Thanks for the numbers though. He is like you Pure, in that anything over 1 on a TSH test is a warning sign and over 2.5 is “we need to treat immediately”.
Thanks for the info. I’ll keep you guys posted.
if tsh is over 2 I would not have the Dr tteat it until other factors for peripheral thyroid conversion are properly evaluated. Ferriin, cortisol, and estrogen imblanace are the biggest ones along with proper nutritional evaluation to see if the building block for hormones may be lacking. Then and only then would treatment once these issues are ruled out thyroid hormone be commenced.
Glad you found a good open minded dr.
Okay, here we go!
After a long ass week, here is my update:
FSH <0.2 (LOL I’m on T-Replacement, who cares?)
Prolactin 15.3 (2.6-13.1) Still high, but lower than last time. Doc says nothing to worry about.
TSH 1.94 (0.34-3.50)
T4 Free 1.0 (0.5-1.6)
T3 Total 157 (87-178)
T3 Free 3.7 (2.5-3.9)
Thyroid Antibodies:
ThyglAb 27 (0-59)
TPO Ab 37 (0-59)
8am Cortisol 14.2 (5.0-25.0)
So, Doc says my Thyroid is “golden”, and treatment isn’t needed. I was kinda looking forward to taking thyroid medication after I read how they basically melt fat away, and even though I don’t have a ton to lose, anything that can get rid of the stuff without me doing anything difficult is always appreciated. But, in the end, I’m glad I don’t need to supplement my thyroid.
should be pretty easy to get prolactin down a bit if you want to. Vitex is supposed to work well if you are just a little high. You could also do a low dose of cabergoline.
Assuming that’s ng/ml, it’s really no that high. just something you could experiment with a bit to see if it makes a difference.