The only major thing that Mike Israetel doesn’t agree on with Eric Helms and Greg Nuckols regarding diet is that he advocates for gaining 1-2lbs./week while the others say you shouldn’t go over 1/2lb. or you will get fat. Israetel says there is nothing wrong with getting fat now if you cut after and end up bigger than you would otherwise, and for bodybuilding that is fine but as a powerlifter you don’t really want to be cutting too drastically or your strength will suffer.
As for him being on steroids or not, I assumed he was at first and I was actually surprised that he said he isn’t. Maybe he was before. Chad Wesley Smith and Max Aita (who he works with and has co-authored a book with CWS) openly admit to using PEDs and nobody says shit about that, so why does he need to lie? He also says that the same principles apply whether you are on juice or not, just you will get better results with juice obviously.
Are you a powerlifter? What experience do you have that is more valuable than mine? Even if Mike Israetel is on steroids, he has valid scientific data to back up the methods he is advocating. There are some disagreements between him and other people, but that’s life.
It’s relevant because you are concerned about losing your physique when you weigh 150. I also said I was kidding. A 325 deadlift is not “sufficient” in any class, but you are 16 years old so you have a long way to go and don’t need to be worried too much about where you are currently.
this is one of the most naiive things I’ve heard in awhile. You don’t know what reasons he might have. It could be something as simple as he doesn’t want his parents to know. Or his kids. Dude, there are a million reasons outside of public image that one could have for not admitting it. How about the fact that it’s fucking illegal? Lol.
You’re missing the point, but I am willing to apply it to me. Yes, you should judge me based on what I do, and you should certainly assume that the drugs I use affect the results I get. I would never disagree with that. I’ve spoken EXTENSIVELY on my training prior to drug use, and how similar it is now. I’ve talked about the similarities and differences between before and after. I had a decade of experience in the gym prior to steroids, but you’re absolutely welcome to ignore anything I say if you think my advice is bad because I use drugs now. That’s totally fine with me I’m not actually here to convince you of the validity of my opinions on training and diet. If you think I"m wrong about things, then I would apply the same rule to me that I would do Israetel and anyone else, which I stated earlier. Seek diverse opinions, rather than the confirming ones. If you hear me say something that doesn’t make sense to you, DEFINITELY judge me for it! I’m one dude with one set of experiences. That’s it. I would never claim to be more.
I do, I just happen to mention Israetel more often because he puts out a lot of information via facebook, youtube videos, and various podcasts/interviews. I already contradicted his opinion that you should aim to gain 1-2lbs. a week. I have Eric Helms’ books too and he doesn’t say anything drastically different. Nutrition is pretty simple until you are trying to cut for a bodybuilding show or something similar, which I have no plans to do.
The point in question is whether you should have a caloric maintenance phase between a cutting and bulking phase. According to Israetel, you should because it will reduce the potential for muscle loss once your body has held onto that muscle for a while, kind of like the set point theory for body fat. Even if that isn’t true, there are other good reasons for the maintenance phase. First of all, building muscle and losing fat (without losing significant amounts of muscle) both require high training volumes. After several months of training with high volume it is likely that you will start to burn out (aka staleness) and progress will slow down. And since we are concerned with powerlifting, not just looking pretty in a speedo, it’s a good idea to lift some heavier weights to increase strength. Lifting at higher intensities will reduce the amount of volume you can recover from due to higher fatigue, so naturally you will have to reduce volume - which will be suboptimal for both muscle gain and fat loss. After a few months of that, you will be ready for more high volume training with higher intensity than before because you just got stronger during the low volume/high intensity caloric maintenance phase.
I think you’re missing the point. I’m not aware of any training methods that only work for people on steroids. If you know of some, then tell us. From what I have heard, the same principles apply whether or not you take steroids. That’s why I don’t go calling out juicers like you when they give advice, if it works for you it will probably work for someone who isn’t on anything as long as it’s adjusted to their recovery capabilities.
Eric Helms, Muscle and Strength Pyramid - Training:
“excessive slowing of the eccentric phase of a lift runs contrary to the benefits of eccentric training. The amount of load you can lift in the gym with a machine or a free weight is limited by your concentric strength, the weakest link in the chain. so it doesn’t really make sense from a conceptual standpoint to do excessively slow eccentric actions to try to get greater hypertrophy, because the whole reason we do eccentrics is to lift heavier, but we can’t lift heavier than we can lift concentrically in the gym. so you’ll be limited by your concentric strength, and then you won’t be using the type of heavy loading that makes eccentric training beneficial.” (talking about special equipment such as weight releasers)
"so, given everything discussed above, what is the take-home message? actually, it’s quite simple: just lift weights. yes, just lift the weights. don’t try to intentionally slow down the tempo of lifting (unless you are a beginner, then do slow down as needed to perform exercises with proper form), just use good form, and lift them.
now to be fair this is a slight oversimplification. it’s important to point out that letting gravity do the lowering portion of the lift for us is not a true eccentric action. what makes it an eccentric action is that you are in control. This is primarily for those training for hypertrophy. you want to make sure that the eccentric part of the lift is actually a muscle action rather than relaxing and letting gravity drop the load back down."
@krisr01 Did you follow all of that? You did? Great. It is too bad your thread went off in a wild direction, but I think you’re smart enough to pick out the information that’s going to be most useful to you.
By the way, I think you’re doing fantastic. A 325 deadlift at your age and size is nothing to sneeze at. Keep looking to improve and I’m sure you’ll continue to achieve great things.
Instead of sifting through arguments on this forum to pick up bits of information, look for “The complete strength training guide” on strongerbyscience, Greg Nuckols’ site.
Your deadlift is “fine” for your age and size, but without any context it’s tough to give honest feedback on it. If it took you over a year to work up to it (2x bw deadlift), then that’s still okay. If your training age is less than a year that’s good, under 6 months then even better. If it was the first time you ever picked a barbell off the ground then maybe you’re the next mini Pete Rubish.
Anyway, to summarize what many have said: eat clean, train hard, and stay as lean as you can within reason, but don’t restrict carbs because you’ll just be restricting your gains in strength and muscle mass. You’re at the age and strength level where you shouldn’t be worrying about what weight class you’re in for a powerlifting meet. I’ve seen guys at 5’5 be very successful (maybe not elite) in just about every weight class.
Train your butt off, stay on point in the kitchen, and compete at the weight your body naturally seems to drift towards. Stuffing your face a couple weeks before a meet just because you have kilos to spare for your weight class and might increase your lifts a few kgs shouldn’t even be on your mind at this stage. The main focus should be building up your base of strength and putting on mass at a reasonable rate. Once you gain a better sense of your own body, you can see what size you feel you should aim for, and maybe your own personal goals will change by then.
Genuine curiosity: is it just my impression or most powerlifters tend to have an overall muscular look up until the 100kg/220lbs class, give or take? My impression is that (for obvious reasons) they have more of a fat look when they’re REALLY heavy, and not even all of them, but in the “common mortals” weight classes they look good on average. Not as lean and muscular as bodybuilders, but still lots of good aesthetics.
I’m not actually here to convince you of the validity of my opinions on training and diet. If you think I"m wrong about things, then I would apply the same rule to me that I would do Israetel and anyone else, which I stated earlier. Seek diverse opinions, rather than the confirming ones. If you hear me say something that doesn’t make sense to you, DEFINITELY judge me for it! I’m one dude with one set of experiences. That’s it. I would never claim to be more.