T Nation

Do I Have Any Issues?


#8

KSman:

I do not use iodized salt nor do I hardly ever eat seafood. Maybe only a handful times a year. Will certainly add the Multi-Vit. w/Iodine to the list.

My longtime IBS/digestive issues have really turned around the past couple of months. Having regular bowel movements, less severe bloating, and have not felt the need to have to get a Colonic in over 2 months. Hard to say why though as there have been many changes made within a 3-4 month window.

  • Stopped drinking milk (always had 2 large glasses of it at dinner since a kid)
  • Using new probiotic (refrigerated type)
  • Using new fish oil supplement (Flameout)
  • Using HCL w/Pepsin at dinner
  • Eating better

What do you think about my waking temp. numbers? Starting today I will be tracking it thru the day.

I reread all your stickies this weekend and am slowly getting better informed thanks to you. Its alot to take in so its very much appreciated the time you and others like PureChance give in helping guys like me.

Thank you


#9

Keep in mind that IBS is frequenty misdiagnoses Celiacs disease. Do you have any idea how you react to gluten? If you have cleaned up your diet recently, you may have inadvertently been avoiding gluten (it is in a lot of bad foods) which could possibly explain your newfound relief.

You may want to keep this in the back of your mind if your symptoms regress and you can’t figure out why.

Celiacs can cause all sorts of nasty issues in your body…high cortisol since your body is always attacking foreign “invaders”…vitamin deficiency due to poor absorption in the gut…uncomfortable bloating…

You don’t have to be celiacs to have a gluten intolerance that can also contribute to all these symptoms.

You can’t test for celiacs/gluten sensitivity markers if you are following a gluten free diet, so if you ever test for it, make sure to eat plenty of gluten in the weeks leading up to the test…


#10

waking body temps look below ideal levels of 97.3 (or 97.6 depending on who you ask). more details about body temps in a link in the blood test sticky.

sweating in the middle of the night could be several things, two quick possibilities are: first - low cortisol which leads to an adrenaline rush (low cortisol leads to low blood sugar, once blood sugar gets too low, the body reacts by pumping out adrenaline to force blood sugar up which disrupts sleep paterns, etc.) second possibility is low aldosterone which deals with salt renention. too little salt = water retention, high blood pressure, higher heart rate, and excess sweating.

what is your typical blood pressure and resting heart rate?


#11

So, you have by definition an iodine deficiency ID. You need to start IR, iodine replenishment. The RDA of 150mcg is treading water. You need substantial amounts. An adult body can store 1.5 grams, yes grams of iodine. So you can see how long it would take typical amounts to make any difference.

You are not alone, almost 90% of Americans are considered iodine deficient. Iodine was removed from bread in the 1960’s and now many prefer sea salt, which does not contain iodine.

We are seeing that, of the guys that land here, it seems like most of them have thyroid problems.


#12

Just wanted to give an update as to how things are going. Thus far I have been dealing with my General Practitioner and it seems I’ll have to look elsewhere to get the help I think I need. On a follow up visit this week I shared all the info Ive learned here from you guys (stickies and your comments) as it relates to my symptoms and previous bloodwork.

Well lets just say that my Dr. was far from impressed and or interested in what I was saying. But I did convince him to do another round of bloodwork where this time will include testing Estradiol and Selenium. And would you believe hes testing me for a bunch of other crap like Limes Disease, Lupus, and HIV!!! All because he really wants to get to the bottom of the cause of my symptoms.

So anyway - I’ll have the bloodwork done this Tuesday. After that experience I did some research on Drs in the area and found a Compounding Pharmacy nearby that does HRT counseling/treatment. Since they offered a free HRT consultation - I met with a Clinical Pharmacist and shared my previous bloodwork results and discussed my symptoms. I hesitated to share what Ive learned here so as to first hear what she had to say. And it was refreshing to hear that she began to identify the exact same things you have all mentioned thus far. After sharing with her what I have learned she asked me for the web address for T-Nation so she could check it out for herself.

Her advisement was to wait for the bloodwork to come back (to see estradiol and selenium), test for Iodine difficiency, and do a 4x/day saliva test. She gave me a bottle of Iodine Tincture (2% Iodine) which I was to brush a 3 inch stain on my belly and see if it disappears in less than 24 hours. Ive done it for a week and the stain does not last 12 hours.
I did the saliva test on April 28
She advised on waiting to supplement with DEHA until all test results come back.

VTBalla34 - I do more times than not react poorly to Gluten. It seems to have worsened with age? Where I once drank beer with no problem, I can hardly stomach it at all these days. Same goes for pasta. The weird thing is that it is sometimes inconsistant - as sometimes I have a bad reaction (instant bloating) and sometimes I dont.

PureChance - At my Drs visit this week BP was 146/90 and HR was 70. The nurse said it was consistant with previous visits. And thanks for sharing the link to the Thyroid Madness site - alot of good info there.

Thanks guys - I’ll share the test results when I get them.


#13

[quote]
She gave me a bottle of Iodine Tincture (2% Iodine) which I was to brush a 3 inch stain on my belly and see if it disappears in less than 24 hours. Ive done it for a week and the stain does not last 12 hours.[/quote]

What is this test called? I’ve not heard of it and am curious…what is it supposed to detect? Is 12 hours good or bad?


#14

With the bottle of Iodine, she also gave me a print out from www.ehow regarding Lugols Iodine Thyroid Test. It says to use an eyedropper or brush to paint a 3 inch stain on your belly or upper thigh. Check frequently during a 24 hour period. If the stain disappears in less than 24 hours, its because the body and thyroid are craving iodine meaning your iodine deficient.
This same test can then be used to correct your bodys iodine levels. Simply keep reapplying the stain everytime it disappers. Gradually, as your body absorbs enough iodine, the stain will take longer to diappear. Once the patch is still evident after 24 hourse, stop the test. Your body should then have enough iodine to aid in proper thyroid hormone production or use of supplemental thyroid hormones.


#15

The idea is that with iodine deficiency [ID] iodine applied to the skin will absorb fast. If iodine levels are adequate, absorption is slower. I have run across this many times before.

This was my story:

Your body temps are a better guide than iodine stains on your skin.


#16

Also, the people behind Iodoral do not believe the skin absorption test is reliable either. Quoted from Dr Abraham’s website www.optimox.com:

“From the published data, the skin iodine patch test is not a reliable method to assess whole body sufficiency for iodine. Many factors play a role in the disappearance of the yellow color of iodine from the surface of the skin. … The iodine/iodide loading test (4) is much more accurate…”


#17

KSman, what’s your opinion on the claim that iodine supplementation can trigger Hashimoto’s? There’s a lot of information that highlights those risks.


#18

We know that low iodine can increase TSH, create goiter when severe or chronic, that can lead to nodules, some perhaps cancerous, and hyperthyroidism from T4 producing nodules that have become TSH independent. Low iodine also leads to problems that seem to be independent of thyroid hormone effects.

Iodine deficiency [ID] is not going to be resolved with RDAs, iodine replenishment [IR] is required. During IR, iodine levels in circulation will be above normal. This is acute, not chronic. There are not long term studies on short duration acute IR, as this is impossible.

The human body can store up to 1.5 GRAMS of iodine. 150mcg will not resolve ID withing a reasonable time frame. Most iodine goes to the thyroid. The next largest store, for women, is breast tissues, perhaps to provide iodine for nursing babies. Low iodine during pregnancy is associated with a lot of problems. And note that ID is associated with fibrotic breast disease, which can be resolved with IR [and for some, elimination of coffee can be very helpful].

Most people are ID from using sea salt, kosher salt, low salt diets, eating prepared foods or restaurant meals that typically do not use iodized salt.

So what is the problem, ID or IR? Many areas in China are iodine deficient. So when you take a chronic ID population and provide IR, are the increased incidents of thyroid auto immune problems rooted in the chronic ID or the IR. Does IR in mild ID cases cause problems? Is there any data for that?

Are cases of hashi’s delayed by low iodine and then released when iodine levels are normalized? Again, do these population studies of severe chronic ID applicable here?

There is a separate issue. Should ID be resolved with IR, or are we better off with ID?

The video talks about people with low thyroid hormones that need medical treatment. My position is that when TSH is moderately elevated and body temps are low, one should try IR and see how body temps respond with IR. In most such cases we see here, guys have some worrying thyroid lab results that their doctors are not concerned with at all. If the doc will not fix it, do you take action or be passive/stupid?

The video also implies that ID is never a concern.


#19

Great response, thanks! I just wanted to hear your opinion as the iodine-triggers-Hashimoto’s-theory pops up quite often when reading about high-dose iodine supplementation.


#20

UPDATE:

Had bloodwork done 2 days ago and made sure to test this time for for Estradiol and Selenium. I will share results when I get them.

I met today with the Pharmacist at the Compound Pharmacy to review the Saliva Test results.

Cortisol Morning 3.3 ng/ml (Range 3.7 - 9.5)
Cortisol Noon 2.8 ng/ml (Range 1.2-3)
Cortisol Evening 1.2 ng/ml (Range 0.6-1.9)
Cortisol Night 0.3 ng/ml (Range 0.4-1.0)

She said these results show the reason I have stress issues and fatigue. While there she also tested me for Zinc. She had me put some liquid in my mouth, swoosh it around and then just let it sit in my mouth for 30 seconds. After spitting it out she asked what I tasted. I did not taste anything at all - seemed as if it was just plain water. She said that this meant I was Zinc Deficient. If I wasn’t, it would have tasted bad right away.

So aside for waiting for the bloodwork to come back, her suggestions are;

Continue Iodine Supplementation
Continue taking D3
DEHA - 25mg per day
Reacted Zinc 54mg per day

And for the low Cortisol issue:

Drenamin
3 tablets 2x per day
Serving size - 3 tablets
Vitamin C 9mg
Riboflavin 1mg
Niacin 12mg
Vitamin B6 0.3mg
Proprietary Blend 730mg (26 different all-natural ingrediants)

and

Cataplex B
2 tablets 2x per day
Serving Size - 2 tablets
Thiamine 1mg
Niacin 20mg
Vitamin B6 1mg
Proprietary Blend 590mg (20 different all-natural ingrediants)

I didn’t list all the Proprietary items due to the amount of items but I can if need be. What do you think about my Cortisol levels and using these products? Is this sufficient or should I be supplementing with Cortisol?

I’d appreciate any thoughts on her suggestions. Thank You


#21

I have gone 7 days with monitoring body temps and the results have been very consistant. Here are the ranges:

4am (95.6 - 96.3)
11am (96.8 - 97.1)
4pm (97.1 - 97.5)

I will continue to monitor periodically moving forward. Also, I am still very interested to hear some thoughts regarding my previous post mentioning my cortisol levels.

Thanks


#22

low body temps confirm hypothyroid symptoms and with your low cortisol levels I would guess that you have high Reverse T3.

check out thyroid-rt3.com for some more info on that subject.

the zinc mouthwash test seems a little too far out there for me personally, but who knows? it could very well be legit.

for low cortisol and/or high rt3, you can take IsoCort an OTC supplement with 2.5mg hydrocortisone per tablet - more info about that on stopthethyroidmadness.com

you take the IsoCort while letting your system recover with the other supplements you are taking. then you slowly wean off the IsoCort and see if your system can pick up the slack.

with your sweating and high BP, you may want to try the sea salt test - the STTM site has a good test - do a search for sea salt pupil test on their site or you can just toss a 1/2 teaspoon of COARSE sea salt to the back of your throat and chug a full glass of water, wait 30 minutes, and see how you feel. If you feel a huge rush, then you were probably salt deficient (which doesn’t show up on blood tests).


#23

Here is my updated bloodwork from 5/10

LIPIDS
Cholesterol, Total 171 ( 125-200 mg/dl )
HDL Cholesterol 47 ( >or= 40 mg/dl )
Triglycerides 33 ( <150 mg/dl )
LDL-Cholesterol 108 ( <130 mg/dl )

METABOLIC
Glucose 95 ( 65-99 mg/dl )
Creatinine 1.0( 0.78 �¢�?�? 1.34 mg/dl )
UREA Nitrogen (BUN) 21 (7-25 mg/dl )
Sodium 140 ( 135-146 mmol/L )
Potassium 4.4 ( 3.5-5.3 mmol/L )
Chloride 102 ( 98-110 mmol/L )
Carbon Dioxide 26 ( 21-33 mmol/L )
Calcium 9.6 ( 8.6-10.2 mg/dl )
Protein, total 7.4 ( 6.2-8.3 g/dl )
Albumin 4.6 ( 3.6-5.1 g/dl )
Globulin 2.8 ( 2.1-3.7 g/dl )
Bilirubin, total 0.4 ( 0.2-1.2 mg/dl )
Alkaline Phosphate 62 ( 40-115 U/L )
AST 21 ( 10-40 U/L )
ALT 19 ( 9-60 U/L )
Hemoglobin A1c 5.5 ( <5.7% of total Hgb )
Vitamin D, 25-OH, TOTAL 79 (30-100 ng/ml)
Creatine Kinase, total 130 ( 44-196 U/L )
TSH, 3rd Gen. 1.5 ( 0.40-4.50 Miu/L )
T4, Free 1.32 ( 0.8-1.8 ng/dl)
T3, Free 3.5 ( 2.3-4.2 pg/Ml )
Thyroglobulin Antibodies <20 ( <20 IU/ml )
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 10 ( <35 IU/ml)
Dihydrotesterone 49 ( 25-75 ng/dl)
Vitamin B12 725 ( 200-1100 pg/ml )

CBC
White Blood Cell 4.7 ( 3.8-10.8 thousand/ul )
Red Blood Cell 4.91( 4.20-5.80 million/ul )
Hemoglobin 15.3 ( 13.2-17.1 g/dl )
Hematocrit 44 ( 38.5-50.0% )
MCV 90 ( 80-100 fl )
MCH 31 ( 27-33 pg )
MCHC 34 ( 32-36 g/dl )
RDW 13.6 (11-15% )
Platelet Count 383 ( 140-400 thousand/ul )
Absolute Neutrophils 2 ( 1.8-7.8 )
Absolute Lymphocytes 2.1 ( 0.7- 4.5 )
Absolute Monocytes 0.5 ( 0.1 - 1.0 )
Absolute Eosinophils 0.1 ( 0.0 - 0.4 )
Absolute Basophils 0.1 ( 0.0 - 0.2 )
Neutrophils 43 ( % )
Lymphocytes 44 ( % )
Monocytes 10 ( % )
Eosinophils 2 ( % )
Basophils 1 ( % )

Iron and Total Iron
Binding Capacity
Iron, Total 52 ( 45-170 mcg/dl )
Iron binding capacity 400 ( 250-425 mcg/dl )
% Saturation 13 L ( 20-50% CALC )
Ferritin 21 ( 20-380 ng/ml )
DHEA Sulfate 56 ( 45-345 mcg/dl )
Estradiol 35 ( 13-54 pg/ml)
FSH 1.6 ( 1.6-8 miu/ml )
LH 4.8 ( 1.5-9.3 miu/ml )
Progesterone <0.5 ( <1.4 ng/ml )
PSA, Total 1.7 ( < or = 4 ng/ml )
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS 716 ( 250-1100 ng/dl)
Free Testosterone 89.5 ( 35-155 pg/ml )
Insulin <2 (<17 uIU/mL)

Overall for the past couple of weeks I have felt the most fatigued and stressed than I ever have. There have been no big life changes or any reason to be stressed. With what I have learned it seems these symptoms along with the low cortisol, low body temps sure sounds like Adrenal Fatigue?

In getting my bloodwork results this week I gave my Dr. one more shot in working with me on these issues. But again - he was hesitant to achnowledge any type of hormone/thyroid issues. So I will be working with the Compound Pharmacy moving forward and with a Dr. they reccomened. I have an appt. this week to discuss a further course of action.

My current Supplementaion is as follows:
Vitamin D3 - 5000iu/day
Vitamin C - 2000mg/day
Complete Multi-Vitamin
Drenamin (Adrenal Support)
Cataplex B (Adrenal Support)
Reacted Zinc - 54mg/day
DHEA - 25mg/day
Iodine w/Kelp - 150 mcg/day
Probiotics
Flameout DHA/EPA/CLA
HCL w/Pepsin - only at dinner to aid with digestion.

Comments/Questions:

I have yet to begin using Isocort that was mentioned by PureChance, But have read alot about it and it seems to be highly reccomended by many. I will discuss at my appoitment this week.

I did the sea salt test and did feel a big rush. I have read on a few Adrenal Fatigue websites where they reccomend drinking a glass of water each day containing some Sea Salt.

Should I increase my Iodine supplementation?

Estradiol of 35 looks to be within range???

DHEA and Ferratin are even lower than the previous test results which is concerning.

DHEA Supplementaion - Should I increase dosage to 50mg/day? I have been taking 25mg/day for 1.5 months.

Diet - I eat healthy foods but have always had a severe lack of appitite. This coupled with my issues of feeling bloated after eating meals has resulted in not eating as often as I should. Using the HCL has certainly helped but I only have used it at dinner since its my biggest meal of the day. . I have read that the dosage should be determined by how much you can take without feeling a burning sensation. Then take one less pill. My current dosage is 1000 mg (4 pills) and I have yet to feel a burning sensation but have not increased the dosage. Should I increase and can/should I take it at other times of the day? For example drinking a protein shake instantly gets me bloated.

I realize theres alot of info & questions here but I’ll appreciate any feedback. Thanks


#24

This statement:

[quote]cflyn014 wrote:
Diet - I eat healthy foods but have always had a severe lack of appitite. This coupled with my issues of feeling blouted after eating meals has resulted in not eating as often as I should. [/quote]

is not congruent with my initial thoughts on your diet which I posted months ago:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I would think your symptoms could be related to your poor diet…oatmeal & banana is NOT a balanced healthy breakfast…a protein shake for lunch is not either…your only real source of food seems to be dinner…some (younger) guys can probably get away with this and Fasting and whatever else is the flavor of the month on this website…most guys can’t…[/quote]

Has this improved? Your diet was not ‘healthy’ before…it was a shitty diet that tends to make one fat and sluggish…

You also said, in retort to my post about Celiacs:

[quote]
I do more times than not react poorly to Gluten. It seems to have worsened with age? Where I once drank beer with no problem, I can hardly stomach it at all these days. Same goes for pasta. The weird thing is that it is sometimes inconsistant - as sometimes I have a bad reaction (instant bloating) and sometimes I dont.[/quote]

Have you done anything to rectify this? Elimination diet? Testing for celiacs? It could certainly explain the issues you’ve been having in the presence of your otherwise good looking bloodwork…

You also said:

[quote]
For one thing I now I dont get enough sleep. Mon thru Fri I wake up at 3:30am, work at 4:30am to approx 3pm. Hit the gym by 4pm & then home. Typically going to bed between 9 to 10pm. Sat. & Sun I do get a good nights sleep. This has been my schedule for well over 20 years. Going to bed any earlier during the week is just about impossible (family time). Energy levels are ok but could be better. I have no problems getting up in the morning, but do sometimes hit a hard wall in the early afternoons. I certainly do feel fatigued at times & have always just chalked it up to not getting enough sleep.[/quote]

Have you improved this? If you know you aren’t geting enough sleep and your diet is not that good, why are you chasing these lab numbers and supplements and stuff? You are trying to build a mansion on swampland…take care of the easy stuff first before getting fancy…

You say you have been doing that for well over 20 years…well guess what buddy, you’re 42 now…you can’t get away with that stuff at 42 that you could when you were 22…


#25

VTBalla34 - I guess I need to clarify my statements. Since my initial post I have greatly improved my diet (eating approx. every 3 hours with a healthy balance of protein, fat, and carbs). I have mostly eliminated all gluten and milk (which I use to drink alot of), and I have eliminated all caffeine as well. This has made a huge impact in regards to my long time constipation/bloating issues.Using HCL with meals has been very helpfull as well. I do however at times still get quickly bloated after a high protein meal or shake. This is why I asked about if it was ok to take HCL every time you eat.

I have not yet tested for Celiacs but will do so. I have been waiting on that as I wanted to give the numerous eliminations a chance first.

Sleep is at 6.5 hours during the week and longer on the weekends. I realize this could be better but its a tough one with my schedule.

If it appears I’m “chasing” lab numbers or in other words “something that is not there” that is not the case. I initialy posted my labwork here to ensure that there were no other major issues causing my fatigue outside of my diet & lack of sleep. Obviously those two things HAVE to improve and they have and will continue to do so. The feedback I recieved here has been greatly appreciated and has forced me to learn alot about myself. Whatever questions or comments I’ve made in my posts has been a result of the feedback I’ve recieved here.
I’m glad my bloodwork looks good - hopefully in time the changes to my diet and getting more sleep will eliviate the fatigue/stress/anxiety I’ve been suffering from. And with luck - there will be no need for supplements and stuff.

Thank you - I do appreciate the interest you have shown.


#26

Hey mate, it sounds like you are on the right track. Keep improving those lifestyle factors and hopefully you will reap the benefits.

Re: Celiacs. If you have eliminated gluten, you can’t get an accurate reading for it so it may be unnecessary to test unless you plan to reintroduce gluten. If you can live the lifestyle and not fall back off the wagon and eliminate gluten for the rest of your life, then I see no need to get a celiacs panel done. Some don’t want to go this route because its rather difficult to completely avoid gluten!

If you want to know the tests to take, take a look at my thread. It is somewhere in there (Bloodwork and TRT Cheatsheet). There are also a ton of good celiacs sites out there that will give you more than enough info.

I don’t know anything about HCL, so I can’t help you there.


#27

One thing that stands out to me is your free testosterone. “89.5 ( 35-155 pg/ml )” I’ve tested testosterone through numerous labs and I always get inconsistent lab ranges for free testosterone. I did some research and found that the range, “35-155” was devised to detect low levels of testosterone. The ideal range is 46-224, optimal being the upper-third. If we base your free testosterone value of 89.5 within this range, you are around 20% of ideal.