T Nation

Do I Have a Handle On Gear Yet?

I’ve been researching for a while now and I want some opinions on what I think I’ve learned about 'roids. feel free to abuse me. It’s a learning experience!!

First some background on me. I’m 25 years old, 6’4’’, 245lbs and 23% BF. Yes you read right. 23%.

I’ve been training on and off for about 5 years. at the beggining of this year I stopped training. Lord know why! now I’m looking to put on some real size and get shit strong. To that end I started reading Cy Willson’s articals and think I’ve got something. Tell me want you guys think.

I intend to start training again in the next two weeks. Full body stuff like Thibs’ ‘Renaissance Body Development
A Holistic Approach to Bodybuilding’ and some High Octane Cardio. Dail in my diet. Then after maybe a year start a cycle.

six weeks
40 mg oxanrolone and 50 mg stanozolol a day.
after 6 weeks starting clomid to help counteract the hypergonadal state. Not to sure how much or how long for but I’m still looking for this info.

you may notice this is an oral cycle. this is because i have a sever needle phobia. At nine years old it took 5 people to hold me down for a blood test. At twenty three I sat in the waiting room hyperventilating. I don’t need that every week for a steroid injection.

so tell me what you guys think. comments, critisism, improvments!!

Thanks guys

Large Dave

[quote]Large Dave wrote:
I’ve been researching for a while now and I want some opinions on what I think I’ve learned about 'roids. feel free to abuse me. It’s a learning experience!!

First some background on me. I’m 25 years old, 6’4’’, 245lbs and 23% BF. Yes you read right. 23%.

I’ve been training on and off for about 5 years. at the beggining of this year I stopped training. Lord know why! now I’m looking to put on some real size and get shit strong. To that end I started reading Cy Willson’s articals and think I’ve got something. Tell me want you guys think.

I intend to start training again in the next two weeks. Full body stuff like Thibs’ ‘Renaissance Body Development
A Holistic Approach to Bodybuilding’ and some High Octane Cardio. Dail in my diet. Then after maybe a year start a cycle.

six weeks
40 mg oxanrolone and 50 mg stanozolol a day.
after 6 weeks starting clomid to help counteract the hypergonadal state. Not to sure how much or how long for but I’m still looking for this info.

you may notice this is an oral cycle. this is because i have a sever needle phobia. At nine years old it took 5 people to hold me down for a blood test. At twenty three I sat in the waiting room hyperventilating. I don’t need that every week for a steroid injection.

so tell me what you guys think. comments, critisism, improvments!!

Thanks guys

Large Dave[/quote]

Start training again, get your diet in order–you’ll look great at 200lbs at 10% body fat. And why not start training tomorrow? “If you don’t have a damn good reason for not doing something now, chances are you aren’t going to do it.”

6’4" and 200lbs? You would look like an anorexic girl. I’m 6’4", 235, maybe 15" and I could use another 30lbs easily at the same BF level.

I would say try to get over your phobia of needles. It’s only mental. You just have to decide what is more important to you, not having a needle stuck in you, or not being as large as you want?

There is always a choice.

[quote]Large Dave wrote:
I’ve been researching for a while now and I want some opinions on what I think I’ve learned about 'roids. feel free to abuse me. It’s a learning experience!!

First some background on me. I’m 25 years old, 6’4’’, 245lbs and 23% BF. Yes you read right. 23%.

I’ve been training on and off for about 5 years. at the beggining of this year I stopped training. Lord know why! now I’m looking to put on some real size and get shit strong. To that end I started reading Cy Willson’s articals and think I’ve got something. Tell me want you guys think.

I intend to start training again in the next two weeks. Full body stuff like Thibs’ ‘Renaissance Body Development
A Holistic Approach to Bodybuilding’ and some High Octane Cardio. Dail in my diet. Then after maybe a year start a cycle.

six weeks
40 mg oxanrolone and 50 mg stanozolol a day.
after 6 weeks starting clomid to help counteract the hypergonadal state. Not to sure how much or how long for but I’m still looking for this info.

you may notice this is an oral cycle. this is because i have a sever needle phobia. At nine years old it took 5 people to hold me down for a blood test. At twenty three I sat in the waiting room hyperventilating. I don’t need that every week for a steroid injection.

so tell me what you guys think. comments, critisism, improvments!!

Thanks guys

Large Dave[/quote]

it’s good that you realize you have work to put in before you jump on the AAS train. A period of 1 year like you propose should get you a very solid base.

during that time, i’d suggest getting the fuck over your “needle phobia”. seriously, i STILL get jittery and basically need my mommy to hold my hand when giving blood or getting an IV injection, it’s something about the needle being in my vein that freaks me out, and someone besides myself jabbing me…however…an IM in the ass or quad is NOTHING, easy as shit!

Make TEST, the base of your first cycle. Take time to research some more during the year you plan to prepare for your first.

Well, I’ll admit that I’m not a regular on this particular sub-forum, but here’s my 2 cents:

You said you’ve been training on and off for about 5 years. And that you stopped training earlier this year. I’ll tell you this: you’ll need more than 1 year of solid “always on” training before you should think about your next cycle. This is how I look at it: If you’ve been off and on, it tells me that you haven’t gotten your crap together and you haven’t been that serious. Maybe you are now, but what’s to prevent you from quitting in 10months to a year? Make sure you’re in it for the long haul. Only after that should you consider using.

As for the cycle, I’ll let the vets here critique it. I can see why some would want you to use Test on a first cycle. But I’ll just say that if you feel more comfortable with an oral cycle, make sure you’re supporting your “waste management system” and getting blood work. Maybe milk thistle, and some other support herbs/compounds. Keep your cycle shorter than you would otherwise for an injectable.

Just my two cents. Now, let’s get to some veteran commentary…

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Well, I’ll admit that I’m not a regular on this particular sub-forum, but here’s my 2 cents:

You said you’ve been training on and off for about 5 years. And that you stopped training earlier this year. I’ll tell you this: you’ll need more than 1 year of solid “always on” training before you should think about your next cycle. [/quote]This is how I look at it: If you’ve been off and on, it tells me that you haven’t gotten your crap together and you haven’t been that serious. Maybe you are now, but what’s to prevent you from quitting in 10months to a year? Make sure you’re in it for the long haul. Only after that should you consider using.[quote]

As for the cycle, I’ll let the vets here critique it. I can see why some would want you to use Test on a first cycle. But I’ll just say that if you feel more comfortable with an oral cycle, make sure you’re supporting your “waste management system” and getting blood work. Maybe milk thistle, and some other support herbs/compounds. Keep your cycle shorter than you would otherwise for an injectable.

Just my two cents. Now, let’s get to some veteran commentary…[/quote]

I’m no Vet.
Now that we got that out of the way, let me probe this thing about getting one’s training and nutrition pitch perfect before embarking.
The rationale sounds sound - crawl before you run …right? sure.

(i dont mean to be sarcastic at all I am trying to suggest another way of looking how his premature attempt may not be counterproductive on at least one level)

Say our Brit friend here is fairly well funded (by some cunt-ess of Cornwall whose a patron of well shed men) and can afford to blow some on gear thats easily available.

R’ber hes already been traning for 5 yrs now (on and off) ofcourse.

well if he gets on a cycle of plain old test e. may be it will get him to devote himself to training religiously and apply himself to eating well.

while the gains may not be huge (for obvious reasons) it will definitely kick the lethargy out of him for good.
we know that test can set people to focus keenly on short term goals at hand. like a kid on ritalin or adderall. right?

and the little gains he does see only will incentivize him to do things more judiciously in the future when he embarks again. this time like you want him to. full throttle !

we observe a lot of ppl giving up or waning down just coz they dont see indication of results fast enough for their efforts and they see guys half their strength bulk up in no time while they themselves generally stagnate way before they hit a wall or their genetic ceiling

i remember myself returning from the gym my arms so sore that i’d almost fail to make a hard turn in the left most lane at an intersection. i didnt know there was thing called ‘overtraining’ back then.

may be that nominal increase in size from his premature cycle will register in his thoughts sayin “thou shall train right to gain right”

vets, ye can flame me now.

All good stuff guys. Thanks. I am in this for the long haul. I will try and work on the needle phobia, but how, apart from jabbing my self with sharp objects? And why should test be the base for the cycle, does’nt it just leave more test in your body to be coverted to E, meaning I need more clomid? (kinda on a budget here guys lol) Are the 'roids not effective enough on their own?

I have no experience on steroids. But I do know that you should probably just train your ass off naturally until around jan-feb. Try to get down to around 10-14% bf then hit a cycle of steroids around spring time. That is how I would do it anyway. Because if you hit the steroids now, your going to have to cut as soon as you get done. If you eat like a true bulk you will probably get up to 25%+. And you will probably lose some of the muscle you gained from the cycle coming down from 25%+ Unless you do steroids again during the cut.

Anyway… just another perspective.

Good luck with whatever you do!

Train and eat PROPERLY for one year/365 days/8760 hours/525600 minutes/31536000 seconds straight and THEN start to look at gear. Don’t plan on it now. If you can’t last that long, then don’t even try it. It will be a waste and things will not turn out the way you had hoped.
You also have that long to get over your needle phobia. Yes you might see some changes with what you have proposed, but most of the changes will be to the liver enzymes in your system.

No, I don’t think you have a handle on it yet. Maybe in year, but not right now.

IMO, oral only cycles suck. I have tried to avoid orals all together as they tend to mess up lots of different things (liver, lipids, HDL/LDL, etc)

This isn’t to say that they are totally bad or don’t have a place, but I really am not to the point where I need to stack 3 drugs to get results.

Get over the needle thing. I hated them before I started, now I can usually jab myself.

Best first cycle out there? Test only, 500mg wk for 10-12 weeks.

I think you need to lose some bf. Many say do not cycle if you are over 15%, I think that’s a shitty rule. But at 23%, try to diet down for a while, see how you look, and keep reading.

Monopoly

I don’t know if this is gonna help you, but that needle doesn’t feel anywhere near what it looks like it will. If you use one to draw with and put a new one on after to inject- like you should -you might actually be shocked that you AREN’T feeling anything. New sharp needles go right in painlessly.