T Nation

Do Humans Change?


#1

i was reading up on the salem witch trials -which happened in 1692- for school. I realized that one of the guys who kinda forces the girls to proclaim who are witches (even though the girls are making it up) he continues this on and people are forced to confess out of fear of being hanged. So then i though wow, this is alot like Hitler claiming the jews were the problem of Germany.

HItler used people's fear of being ostrasized from a majority to have them join together under one cause, no matter if it was true or false. Same with person for the witch trial, he uses peoples fear to gain power himself. I then thought this was like McCarthyism as well. He claimed people were communists dispite the fact there was no evidence.

People's fear of being blacklisted caused him to gain popularity and power. Same as the other two. Lastly I thought about the Iraq war. -i mean no harsh feelings towards any soldiers over there or who were over there when i say this, i respect you all- But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well. Now why would anyone want to fight over oil when its going to run out eventually?

Instead of losing lives why not let oil prices rise, forcing people to come up with new energy sources so that we are ahead of the game. When i thought about all this it makes me think do humans even evolve? Or do the situations change but we have the same themes underneath. It made me think of how pointless everything i do is. There will always be people in power who take advantage and fuck you over.

What is the point of anything? this ruined my week when i thought about this because of how frustrated i was. What can someone do to overcome this? No doubt it happens on a daily basis between your boss, teachers, peers w/e.
just some thoughts


#2

…there are a couple of ways to overcome this feeling:

  1. Go through an existential crisis, and come to terms with meaningless, goallesness and the emptiness within. This would be, imo, the best option.

  2. Or try to counter the bleak and cynical world with joy, happiness and kindness. But somehow this tends to follow naturally when 1. has been completed succesfully. If that is not the case you need a lot of energy.

  3. Realise that you can make a difference. The scale of which DOES NOT MATTER. You can make a difference as a friend, colleague, husband, father, doctor, politici… no, make life worth living for you, and your world tends to follow.

  4. This is important: get rid of your t.v. Don’t read newspapers, or listen to talkradio. Let the world be the world. 60 years ago you wouldn’t even know what happened outside of your town, let alone on the other side of the world. Listen to music, read books, watch worthwile movies.

  5. On most occasions these two words solve everything: “Fuck it”, and then let-go. What are you gonna do anyway, change the world or something?


#3

Uh-oh, be careful around here with statements like “But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well.” We have a lot of Bush cheerleaders on this site.

These are good thoughts though, and I agree, it is somewhat depressing when you think about it, but I think that people do change, although it frequently takes a lot more effort and a lot more time than it should. The gradual progression of civilization from the earliest tribes up to modern representative democracy cannot but be counted an impressive achievement, though the cost has undeniably been very dear.

I like to think that as people become generally more intelligent and prosperous, the pace of improvement will increase.


#4

I agree, and it is continuing today. Now the crises are global warming and the failing economy. If you disagree with policies you are dooming us and ostracized by the MSM. Look at the tea parties. Don’t disagree.

The political tactic of using a crises (even an invented one) to scare people into obedience hasn’t gone away.

To quote 2 of the POTUS’s cabinet members.

“never waste a good crisis,” Hilary C.

“Never Let a Crisis Go to Waste” Rahm Emanuel


#5

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Uh-oh, be careful around here with statements like “But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well.” We have a lot of Bush cheerleaders on this site.

These are good thoughts though, and I agree, it is somewhat depressing when you think about it, but I think that people do change, although it frequently takes a lot more effort and a lot more time than it should. The gradual progression of civilization from the earliest tribes up to modern representative democracy cannot but be counted an impressive achievement, though the cost has undeniably been very dear.

I like to think that as people become generally more intelligent and prosperous, the pace of improvement will increase.[/quote]

im not saying the whole shabang was for oil but i really think you would be foolish to deny that oil did not at least play a small role in deciding if we would go to war or not. Same thing with supporting Israel, we need a safe zone in the middle east.

But with the getting intelligent part, it almost makes it seem like people think of easier and better ways to scam you and take advantage.


#6

to e; good advice and i have slightly followed through with step 1, i think i need to find more people at school who agree, but its hard when you live in a small suburban area where everyone is white and thinks they are gangsters… and half the town is predjudice. I hate my town!


#7

[quote]bignate wrote:
i was reading up on the salem witch trials -which happened in 1692- for school. I realized that one of the guys who kinda forces the girls to proclaim who are witches (even though the girls are making it up) he continues this on and people are forced to confess out of fear of being hanged. So then i though wow, this is alot like Hitler claiming the jews were the problem of Germany.

HItler used people’s fear of being ostrasized from a majority to have them join together under one cause, no matter if it was true or false. Same with person for the witch trial, he uses peoples fear to gain power himself. I then thought this was like McCarthyism as well. He claimed people were communists dispite the fact there was no evidence.

People’s fear of being blacklisted caused him to gain popularity and power. Same as the other two. Lastly I thought about the Iraq war. -i mean no harsh feelings towards any soldiers over there or who were over there when i say this, i respect you all- But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well. Now why would anyone want to fight over oil when its going to run out eventually?

Instead of losing lives why not let oil prices rise, forcing people to come up with new energy sources so that we are ahead of the game. When i thought about all this it makes me think do humans even evolve? Or do the situations change but we have the same themes underneath. It made me think of how pointless everything i do is. There will always be people in power who take advantage and fuck you over.

What is the point of anything? this ruined my week when i thought about this because of how frustrated i was. What can someone do to overcome this? No doubt it happens on a daily basis between your boss, teachers, peers w/e.
just some thoughts[/quote]

Ahh kid, welcome to the world, where the power hungry will do whatever they can to make their cause seem good and righteous and valid.

Watch “V for Vendetta,” then “Fight Club.” Get to the point where you understand the philosophies they are espousing.

They are two examples of the opposite way you can go, in my opinion. You can be the constant idealist, who always believes change is possible, or you can go the way of the nihilist and damn the world.

But really, the fact that there are people on the good side of the spectrum is what balances things out. If you give up the fight, then life is not worth living.

Do people evolve? Not their basic nature, no. But we have come a long way from believing in hereditary monarchies. The world is better than it was. Don’t lose hope. I suggest you begin reading a lot of history books. You’ll find the blueprint for everything that will ever go on in the future.

There will never be a utopia, and honestly, who would want it? It’d be boring. But as long as people pay attention, it will never get to that level of Hitler, or McCarthy, or Bush, ever again.


#8

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I agree, and it is continuing today. Now the crises are global warming and the failing economy. If you disagree with policies you are dooming us and ostracized by the MSM. Look at the tea parties. Don’t disagree.

The political tactic of using a crises (even an invented one) to scare people into obedience has been hasn’t gone away.

To quote 2 of the POTUS’s cabinet members.

“never waste a good crisis,” Hilary C.

“Never Let a Crisis Go to Waste” Rahm Emanuel[/quote]

Yup.

Gulf on Tonkin… that shit cost 58,000 lives for that little lie.


#9

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
bignate wrote:
i was reading up on the salem witch trials -which happened in 1692- for school. I realized that one of the guys who kinda forces the girls to proclaim who are witches (even though the girls are making it up) he continues this on and people are forced to confess out of fear of being hanged. So then i though wow, this is alot like Hitler claiming the jews were the problem of Germany.

HItler used people’s fear of being ostrasized from a majority to have them join together under one cause, no matter if it was true or false. Same with person for the witch trial, he uses peoples fear to gain power himself. I then thought this was like McCarthyism as well. He claimed people were communists dispite the fact there was no evidence.

People’s fear of being blacklisted caused him to gain popularity and power. Same as the other two. Lastly I thought about the Iraq war. -i mean no harsh feelings towards any soldiers over there or who were over there when i say this, i respect you all- But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well. Now why would anyone want to fight over oil when its going to run out eventually?

Instead of losing lives why not let oil prices rise, forcing people to come up with new energy sources so that we are ahead of the game. When i thought about all this it makes me think do humans even evolve? Or do the situations change but we have the same themes underneath. It made me think of how pointless everything i do is. There will always be people in power who take advantage and fuck you over.

What is the point of anything? this ruined my week when i thought about this because of how frustrated i was. What can someone do to overcome this? No doubt it happens on a daily basis between your boss, teachers, peers w/e.
just some thoughts

Ahh kid, welcome to the world, where the power hungry will do whatever they can to make their cause seem good and righteous and valid.

Watch “V for Vendetta,” then “Fight Club.” Get to the point where you understand the philosophies they are espousing.

They are two examples of the opposite way you can go, in my opinion. You can be the constant idealist, who always believes change is possible, or you can go the way of the nihilist and damn the world.

But really, the fact that there are people on the good side of the spectrum is what balances things out. If you give up the fight, then life is not worth living.

Do people evolve? Not their basic nature, no. But we have come a long way from believing in hereditary monarchies. The world is better than it was. Don’t lose hope. I suggest you begin reading a lot of history books. You’ll find the blueprint for everything that will ever go on in the future.

There will never be a utopia, and honestly, who would want it? It’d be boring. But as long as people pay attention, it will never get to that level of Hitler, or McCarthy, or Bush, ever again. [/quote]

i have seen both, and fight club multiple times and i see where you are going with that, i actually thought of making a semi fight club cuz i have so much anger and frustration haha but i dont think it will work out. Putting V for Vendetta on netflix right now, that was a sweet movie but i think i did miss what was behind it. But i also want to overcome these things on the day to day basis, like kids scamming other kids at school and that kind of thing.


#10

Wait to you see what the “belief” of Global Warming is going to do to this economy. It will make the Witch Trials seem like a garden party.


#11

Ooooooo, scary!


#12

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Ooooooo, scary![/quote]

Actually losing sovereignty to a non-continental power is scary.


#13

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Ooooooo, scary!

Actually losing sovereignty to a non-continental power is scary.[/quote]

care to explain? im not very politically aware


#14

[quote]hedo wrote:
Wait to you see what the “belief” of Global Warming is going to do to this economy. It will make the Witch Trials seem like a garden party.[/quote]

Theres nothing that the “belief” in globlal warming can do to this economy that reagonomics and deregulation havent already done.


#15

[quote]erik206 wrote:
hedo wrote:
Wait to you see what the “belief” of Global Warming is going to do to this economy. It will make the Witch Trials seem like a garden party.

Theres nothing that the “belief” in globlal warming can do to this economy that reagonomics and deregulation havent already done.[/quote]

Just for shits and giggles, why don’t you put forth a logically coherent, defensible hypothesis as to what “regonomics” and deregulation did, and why those results were negative in the aggregate.

For a ten-point bonus, why don’t you toss out an alternative, and explain why it would be better.

I hear these buzzwords fairly often, and am becoming more and more convinced that they’re used by people who have no idea how the economy functions and are desperately trying to sound relevant.


#16

[quote]bignate wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Ooooooo, scary!

Actually losing sovereignty to a non-continental power is scary.

care to explain? im not very politically aware[/quote]

The global warming crisis could be levied as a way to create a type of global regulatory comity the US would have to answer to even though it is outside our boarders. It would be a loss of US sovereignty and no longer a government “of the people”.

Essentially it is being used to push for a world government.


#17

[quote]bignate wrote:
i was reading up on the salem witch trials -which happened in 1692- for school. I realized that one of the guys who kinda forces the girls to proclaim who are witches (even though the girls are making it up) he continues this on and people are forced to confess out of fear of being hanged. So then i though wow, this is alot like Hitler claiming the jews were the problem of Germany.

HItler used people’s fear of being ostrasized from a majority to have them join together under one cause, no matter if it was true or false. Same with person for the witch trial, he uses peoples fear to gain power himself. I then thought this was like McCarthyism as well. He claimed people were communists dispite the fact there was no evidence.

People’s fear of being blacklisted caused him to gain popularity and power. Same as the other two. Lastly I thought about the Iraq war. -i mean no harsh feelings towards any soldiers over there or who were over there when i say this, i respect you all- But Bush no doubt had intentions of using the war for oil benifits to at least some extent. So he played up the terrorism factor to make us come together under the war as well. Now why would anyone want to fight over oil when its going to run out eventually?

Instead of losing lives why not let oil prices rise, forcing people to come up with new energy sources so that we are ahead of the game. When i thought about all this it makes me think do humans even evolve? Or do the situations change but we have the same themes underneath. It made me think of how pointless everything i do is. There will always be people in power who take advantage and fuck you over.

What is the point of anything? this ruined my week when i thought about this because of how frustrated i was. What can someone do to overcome this? No doubt it happens on a daily basis between your boss, teachers, peers w/e.
just some thoughts[/quote]

Yes humans change. We are evolving as a species. Hopefully for the better.

We clearly still have a tendancy for mob mentality - and I don’t think that’s driven by fear. Look at what the Italians are doing to Amanda Knox right now. No fear there, just a blind lust for blood. Girl is clearly 100 percent innocent. We (Americans) did the same to the Ramsey family when their daughter was murdered by an intruder.

Regarding the oil point. It’s been human nature not to make change until we absolutely have to. It looks like this will be the case for the energy crisis as well.


#18

Politicians and priests will always use fearmongering to gain power over others. It’s a classic formula that has worked over and over again. Create an enemy (jews, blacks, gays, muslims, Satan, etc.), then capitalize on the fear and hatred people feel toward that enemy to gain support for your own agenda.


#19

[quote]forlife wrote:
Politicians and priests will always use fearmongering to gain power over others. It’s a classic formula that has worked over and over again. Create an enemy (jews, blacks, gays, muslims, Satan, etc.), then capitalize on the fear and hatred people feel toward that enemy to gain support for your own agenda.[/quote]

That’s a somewhat short and biased list of ‘enemies’; Jews, Blacks, Whites, illegal immigrants, Sunnis, Shiites, chauvinists, feminists, God, Satan, gays, homophobes, carbon producers, drunk drivers, cigarettes, people who don’t wear their seat belts, people who don’t wear their bicycle or motorcycle helmets, drinks containing thujone, ingestibles containing (but not limited to) ergot derivatives, THC, steroid derivatives, bisphenol A, bovine growth hormone, GMOs, ‘pesticides’, West Nile, Bird Flu…

Scaring people is easy.


#20

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
bignate wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Ooooooo, scary!

Actually losing sovereignty to a non-continental power is scary.

care to explain? im not very politically aware

The global warming crisis could be levied as a way to create a type of global regulatory comity the US would have to answer to even though it is outside our boarders. It would be a loss of US sovereignty and no longer a government “of the people”.

Essentially it is being used to push for a world government.[/quote]

There are undoubtedly people pushing for this. This doesn’t change that fact that it’s a near-fictional boogieman. There will never be a “world government” in our lifetimes. (Unless WWIII comes around).

Global warming exists. Finally just about everyone agrees (even most of the crazies on this site). The question is “what should we do about it (if anything)?”