DNP

[quote]World1187 wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
World1187 wrote:
The whole idea of ingesting DNP is just wrong. Period. I don’t care who you are, look up some fucking research.

World

No no, I understand. But I’m curious to see his perspective on this. I don’t need that crap.

So just but 6 lab rats and ask them when they croak?

You will get the same answer.

World[/quote]

World,

First I want to say your much more experienced and knowledgeable when it comes to steroids as a whole. I have ENDLESS respect for you.

But I think the way you are treating DNP is the same way uneducated people treat synthol, and steroid users. They act as if educated use of these substances is extremly harmful.

So lets be fair, post 100% evidence of the people that died. I mean it has to be all over the web, since this drug is pretty common on the BB world - if there are several deaths directly link (like people swear about steroids and synthol) then there would be a lot of haters spreading the news of the deaths, with verified sources. Also who ever siad people have died at ‘low doses’ please post it.

Its amazing I get almost the same reaction from synthol use as I do DNP. Neither of the threads did any of the haters use either substance.

I respect you World A LOT, I just would like to be educated on this.

Thanks!
RetailBoy

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
World1187 wrote:
The whole idea of ingesting DNP is just wrong. Period. I don’t care who you are, look up some fucking research.

World

No no, I understand. But I’m curious to see his perspective on this. I don’t need that crap.[/quote]

They say DNP is “muscle sparing”, but in actuality, DNP is anti-proteolytic which means it uses carbohydrates or fats exclusively to supply energy for the mitochondria and does not facilitate muscle breakdown due to the protein sparing.

So it doesn’t cause muscle break down, but it isn’t “muscle sparing” as many people call it.

Anyone using DNP that is not an elite BBer should have their head blown the fuck off.

What the fuck ever happened to eating right and training.

It lazy motherfuckers like the OP who give this community a bad name.

I don’t care if it is free - you are not smart enough to use the shit.

Sure it can be safe if the person using it knows before hand that more is not better, and that just eating a shit load of carbs will NOT keep him healthy.

Hating on DNP is nothing like the ignorance of Synthol, and Steroids. You can find tons of documented cases where the cause of death is directly related to DNP usage.

Those who don’t think DNP is playing with death need to be committed to a mental institution.

I’ve been awaiting Big Ballz return…

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Anyone using DNP that is not an elite BBer should have their head blown the fuck off.

What the fuck ever happened to eating right and training.

It lazy motherfuckers like the OP who give this community a bad name.

I don’t care if it is free - you are not smart enough to use the shit.

Sure it can be safe if the person using it knows before hand that more is not better, and that just eating a shit load of carbs will NOT keep him healthy.

Hating on DNP is nothing like the ignorance of Synthol, and Steroids. You can find tons of documented cases where the cause of death is directly related to DNP usage.

Those who don’t think DNP is playing with death need to be committed to a mental institution. [/quote]

RJ,

You are very wise and for me ot disagree with you would be silly.

You are correct, anyone who isn’t a competitive bodybuilder and takes DNP is looking for an easy way out (there is a slight excuse for being experimental… but not more than one cycle).

I also agree you remark on comparing synthol to DNP, DNP is far more dangerous - I would stand us against synthol haters way before DNP.

I have been on several cycles, and I 100% don’t advocate the use of it, I actually don’t plan on doing it again. Why? It’s not because of it being deadly, I know how to prevent that and have played enough with DNP to know my limits. It’s mainly because I found it as a CRUTCH when dieting. Dieting is my weak point, my natural body type is a endomorph. I dieted down 60 pounds years a go to get to a normal size, but ever since then haven’t had the motivation to completely 100% stick to a strict diet to trim thje lil extra fat I have and reach my goal. SO I used DNP as a crutch, Which I hate.

12 step meeting over

Atleast I’ve made it past denial :\

-RetailBoy

used DNP twice…with great results each time (15lbs, in 8 days the 1st time)…went as high as 800mgs/day…which…gotta say was too danmed hot…I would def. recomend some AAS while on…to spare muscle…and I would also run it for more than 4 days…
be sure to drink lots of water, and take your vitamins/ minerals…it’s not as bad as people make it out to be…but…put some old sheets on your bed…I sweated alot more when trying to sleep than any other time of day.

[quote]iksrtfo28 wrote:
used DNP twice…with great results each time (15lbs, in 8 days the 1st time)…went as high as 800mgs/day…which…gotta say was too danmed hot…I would def. recomend some AAS while on…to spare muscle…and I would also run it for more than 4 days…
be sure to drink lots of water, and take your vitamins/ minerals…it’s not as bad as people make it out to be…but…put some old sheets on your bed…I sweated alot more when trying to sleep than any other time of day.[/quote]

What sweaty nights? 10mg of valium 1 cap of bendryl and I’m out :smiley:

1: J Anal Toxicol. 2006 Apr;30(3):219-22.

Two deaths attributed to the use of 2,4-dinitrophenol.

Miranda EJ, McIntyre IM, Parker DR, Gary RD, Logan BK.

Washington State Toxicology Laboratory, Washington State Patrol, 2203 Airport Way
South, Seattle, Washington 98134, USA.

We report the cases of two individuals, one in Tacoma, WA, and the second in San Diego, CA, whose deaths were attributed to ingestion of 2,4-dinitrophenol(2,4-DNP). 2,4-DNP has historically been used as a herbicide and fungicide. By uncoupling mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation, the drug causes a marked increase in fat metabolism that has led to its use to aid weight loss. Both cases reported here involved its use for this purpose. Features common to both cases included markedly elevated body temperature, rapid pulse and respiration, yellow coloring of the viscera at autopsy, history of use of weight loss or bodybuilding supplements, and presence of a yellow powder at the decedent’s residence.

Because of its acidic nature, the drug is not detected in the basic
drug fraction of most analytical protocols, but it is recovered in the
acid/neutral fraction of biological extracts and can be measured by
high-performance liquid chromatography or gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. The concentration of 2,4-DNP in the admission blood samples of the two deaths reported here were 36.1 and 28 mg/L, respectively. Death in both cases was attributed to 2,4-DNP toxicity. Review of information available on the internet suggests that, although banned, 2,4-DNP is still illicitly promoted for weight loss.


1: Regul Toxicol Pharmacol. 2007 Jul;48(2):115-7. Epub 2007 Mar 31.

Dinitrophenol and obesity: an early twentieth-century regulatory dilemma.

Colman E.

Division of Metabolism and Endocrinology Products, Office of Drug Evaluation II,
Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, U.S. Food and Drug Administration, 10903
New Hampshire Avenue, Silver Spring, MD 20993, USA. eric.colman@fda.hhs.gov

In the early 1930s, the industrial chemical dinitrophenol found widespread favor as a weight-loss drug, due principally to the work of Maurice Tainter, a clinical pharmacologist from Stanford University. Unfortunately the compound’s therapeutic index was razor thin and [b] it was not until thousands of people suffered irreversible harm [/b]that mainstream physicians realized that dinitrophenol’s risks outweighed its benefits and abandoned its use. Yet, it took passage of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act in 1938 before federal regulators had the ability to stop patent medicine men from selling dinitrophenol to Americans lured by the promise of a drug that would safely melt one’s fat away.

Good find. No mention of dosages, but they had elevated temps, anyone using DNP would be foolish not to carry around a thermometer, as I said 100 is a good temp to stop at.

Scientist are actually trying to find a way to reduce the sides, so DNP can be used to help morbid obese individuals that are too large for surgery and unable to walk.

But these death are no different than those of insulin over dose and improper use. But it’s amazing the way the board accepts those that administer it.

-RetailBoy

True, but I don’t think that there have been “thousands of people [suffering from] irreversible harm” from insulin over dose. You do have to remember that this was once a popular medical remedy. It was stopped when people realized just how deadly it was, unlike steroids and insulin, which have a substantially larger therapeutic index. The amount of harm DNP caused before being controlled/banned is fairly well documented. Insulin is deadly, no doubt about it. But there are well documented and researched protocols for its use, and a larger margin of error. Not quite the same with DNP.

Additionally, elevated temperature is a direct consequence of elevated metabolism in this sense. But the thing with DNP is you can’t really stop your temp from rising when it goes too high because of the half-life of DNP. This is because the drug is in your system and is causing the rise, and it will continue to rise as long as the drug is present in adequate amounts. This means that you can accidentally overdose by 1 small dose and end up dying because there’s no way to clear the drug from your system fast enough.

Also, I’d like to hear your take on why DNP is anti-proteolytic. I disagree with this and am curious to see what your reasons are for saying that.

people die in car accidents every single day…should we all just never drive as well??
I say everything in moderation…as long as you use your head…you’ll be fine…

You’re not going to die on DNP by overdosing by one small dose. That’s like saying one extra rep on bench press, and you will fail, and the bar will crush your neck.

Which, if you think about it, is a distinct possibility with the bench press.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that once you hit the overdose level, you have to wait til the drug clears your system and there’s nothing you can do about the rising temp. Mitochondrial shutdown isn’t something I personally would take lightly. The 1.5 day half-life makes it easy to mis-calculate the amount you have in your body and take a dose too large.

This is why people (very sensibly), advocate taking small doses and assessing tolerance to it, before increasing the dose by small amounts. Unfortunately, if you increase by too large a margin you may or may not notice a problem before you’ve dosed a couple more times. At that point, you’re in trouble.

In my opinion, if you’re denying the risks of DNP and trying to equate it with steroids and insulin [which also have real but much lesser risks], you are sticking your head in the sand.

I see both sides very clearly and respect both equally. i will in fact be going a bout with it if anyone is interested in how it goes

[quote]Game_over wrote:
I see both sides very clearly and respect both equally. i will in fact be going a bout with it if anyone is interested in how it goes[/quote]

Before \ after pictures?

only to a certain select few if wanted. Im mainly wanting to see vascularity changes and just to see how much of a difference there is between when i diet down and cardio up to shred and DNP. sure could be stupid or could be genious. I am by no means trying to take a lazy way out as i have dieted down and cardioed (new word) up many times before, i guess just curiosity really.

I’d be interested in knowing. Keep us updated man.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
True, but I don’t think that there have been “thousands of people [suffering from] irreversible harm” from insulin over dose. You do have to remember that this was once a popular medical remedy. It was stopped when people realized just how deadly it was, unlike steroids and insulin, which have a substantially larger therapeutic index. The amount of harm DNP caused before being controlled/banned is fairly well documented. Insulin is deadly, no doubt about it. But there are well documented and researched protocols for its use, and a larger margin of error. Not quite the same with DNP.

Additionally, elevated temperature is a direct consequence of elevated metabolism in this sense. But the thing with DNP is you can’t really stop your temp from rising when it goes too high because of the half-life of DNP. This is because the drug is in your system and is causing the rise, and it will continue to rise as long as the drug is present in adequate amounts. This means that you can accidentally overdose by 1 small dose and end up dying because there’s no way to clear the drug from your system fast enough.

Also, I’d like to hear your take on why DNP is anti-proteolytic. I disagree with this and am curious to see what your reasons are for saying that.[/quote]

Aargon I’m not going to get into the insulin DNP debate. My family is plagued with diabetes so I know what can be instore for those that don’t use it properly. But to play devils advocate, DNP we don’t know a bunch about and it isn’t used for medical purposes. So there is a lot more ‘hidden’ when it comes to DNP. But not here to argue that at all.

But about your question of why I think DNP is anti-proteolytic. I’m pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the human physiology (genetics, micro, immunology) due to my education and I’ve only take chem and O-chem - so biochemistry isn’t a strong suite. I could tell you what it does in the body (sure you already know with your background), but I don’t have a theory on the anti-proteolytic ATM. But I know from experience and several others I’ve seen first hand that it is no more than a Ketogenic diet that you are on for a week.
-RB

Hate to recommend another site, but if you are going to do a DNP cycle, you absolutely must check out any thread by OhHannah or Conciliator over at anonymousbodybuilder.com.

They have provided some extraordinary information - facts/fiction/good/bad. Really, I would venture to say their posts on the subject are the best on the Internet. Some of it is too dry/scientific. But alot of it is hands-on good stuff. You should read it all. Both of them are AAS users as well as scientists (maybe one of them is a doctor, not a scientist).

They guided me through my cycle (and my mishaps, as you may read). If you get it right, it’s all relatively simple. But if you get it wrong the sides are dangerous and nightmarish. Most importantly, take into account the compounding effect this drug has on your body.

In the beginning, I had a disasterous experience, but once things straightened out I managed it better and shed about 3 bodyfat percentage points - something I had not been able to do on my own. I will probably cycle with it again at a low dose next March/April/May.

Good luck. Don’t overdo it and you’ll be rewarded with some loss definitely.
LittleRunt