T Nation

DNP, Usnic Acid & Triax

Has anyone used usnic acid/DNP or tiratricol(triacana)/Triax? Are they as bad as people say, or are they simply misused, abused, and misunderstood? If used sensibly are they effective? Just curious.

I know that the Roberts recommendation for cytomel is 12.5 mcg/day which helps to reduce bodyfat while eliminating the rebound. Is there any way that this line of thinking can be applied to tiratricol(Triax)? Can you just take it for 2 weeks or so in the same manner one would use a traditional cycle of cytomel? Finally, how much of a fat rebound are we talking about? In the article “Fat Loss Products” (hard copy of T-Mag) Roberts suggests one may regain more fat than you lost! Is it really that bad?

I’ve used Tricana (tiratricol), which is the equivalent of Syntrax’s original Triax. The upshot is that for pure body weight reduction, the stuff works and I’ve yet to find any product that works as quickly - I’ve lost 10 lbs. in 3 weeks before. The downside is the suppression of natural thyroid function, which means some weight gain is inevitable (1/2 to 3/4 has been my experience) while the thyroid normalizes, which takes about as long as the period of use. Using MD-6 or Prolab’s Metabolic Thyrolean may help speed up the re-normalization of thyroid function, but unless you are some kinda mutant, you will experience some down-regulation.
One other caveat: Tricana/Triax induced-weight loss does not distinguish between fat or muscle (I found this out my first cycle), but if you up your intake of protein, and use Methoxy -7 and/or Ribose-C (or another good creatine product), you can pretty much hold on to your muscle mass (at least for up to 3 weeks - I’ve never used it much longer, which I found out during a couple of subsequent cycles).
Bottom line - if you use the product as directed, and use some kinda thyroid-stimulating and/or fat-burner product afterwards, you should be okay.

I think it depends on who you ask. According to T-mag it is dangerous to use Usnic Acid. I now people who have used it for a long time now and have had no problems and lost ALOT of fat! DNP works but is really dangerous, use too much and you could die or seriously harm your body.

  1. DNP is big and fungus poison and is known
    to positively cause cataracts.

  2. Tiratricol is the WORST thyroid compound
    available. I don’t talk to hear myself
    speak and I don’t write to read what I wrote.
    If you can’t go back in the TMAG archives
    and see what the “real use” for tiratricol
    is per the US Patent held by the French
    Drug firm, Laphal, then you deserve what
    you get. Besides, my T-2 (well, mine and
    Bill’s, we both are behind this one) is more
    potent and safer.

  3. usnic acid/sodium usnate is clastogenic
    at doses less that that found in the
    company who happens to put this in their
    supplement.

Brock

Only one of the 3 I’ve tried is DNP, done at varying doses over the period of a year. Personally, I think that though it may work wonders for some, it’s a bit overrated for others, as I saw some change, but nothing amazing. If you’re cutting down for a show or something, perhaps a short 4-5 day DNP cycle could be beneficial for getting that last pound or two of fat off, but for dropping considerable amouts of weight, it didn’t do much more than anything else. For the grief I’ve experienced with it, I’d sooner have spent the extra few weeks dieting than to feel like I’m roasting in hell again. Nothing like sleeping with the window wide open while it is only 38 degrees outside because you feel like you’re lying on a barbecue grill. And let me tell ya about the time I tried to up my dose to 1000mg/day when some fellow experimenters told me that it did even better for them at a higher dose…I spent an entire day lying in a basement on a pool table because it was the only cool place I could find, and I was immobile for nearly 6 hours because I was so overheated that I couldn’t muster up the strength to get off my ass. Bad experience.

But, at the same time, let me say that there are a few things to keep in mind with DNP:
(1) If you’re going to use it, do lower dosages. 150mg-300mg/day will be plenty for most people to get a fair effect from it. Screw those who say “You need 600mg/day to get effects!” I did best when I went lowered dose and didn’t sweat anywhere NEAR what I did on 600mg/day. It’ll make your life livable rather than miserable. (2) Cut out more fat, eat more carbs! To make DNP most effective, you need carbs (and to help avoid the cataract issue Brock mentioned) and fat is bad news with DNP. Shoot for a diet of something like 45% carbs, 45% protein, 10% fat. Your appetite will shoot up a ton on DNP, but don’t overdo it with eating else you’ll blow your progress easily! (3) Be ready to suffer while on it. At low does as I suggest, it will be tolerable. Some slight sweating, panting a bit from exercise which seemed easy under normal circumstances, though on high dose, you’ll be gasping for air after simply climbing a few flights of stairs! I had a hell of a time breating on it during exercise, and right up to the point where I was taking it, I could run 5 miles without barely breaking a sweat. Also, expect to stink quite a bit as your sweat will take on a new unpleasant aroma, and if you’re currently having sex, you might not want to let your woman see your mighty load, because it’s going to come out yellow for the period you’re on DNP and for a few days afterward. Kind of a tough thing to explain to someone as to why it looks that way.
(4) If you’re capping it yourself, BE CAREFUL! You sure as hell don’t want to breathe the stuff, and whatever it gets on will almost be guaranteed to be yellow for the rest of its existence. I have a few shirts that have been through the wash dozens of times that will attest to this. It’ll be on your hands for close to a week until it comes out, so wear some light gloves as well! Make sure you’ve got a good scale for measuring, because the last thing you want is to make your caps into 300mg rather than the 150mg you want and suffer a day in hell because you’ve accidentally doubled your dose. I’ve heard conflicting info on whether or not you can actually die from too much DNP, but let me say that I almost wished I was dead that day I took a gram of the stuff! Not pleasant at all.

Well Hope this helps a bit. I can answer more questions if anyone cares. Later, Flax

Thanks for the extensive input, Flaxoil! I hope it is as useful for others as it was for me.

Brock, I did in fact read the aforementioned article and I was just wanting some more feedback OUT OF CURIOSITY. Is there any update on the timetable for when T2 will be out, as I will not experiment with DNP, usnic acid or triax for all of the reasons that you listed. Thank you for the emphatic imput. It reassures me that they are compounds to stay away from.

Looks like T2 will be out quite shortly.

Very timely question, as due to a recent abdominal surgery I’m strugling to lose the 3 extra inches around my waist and was considering Tricana/Triax. What does everyone thing about using a guggulsterone product after the Tricana (to kick the thyroid back into shape), if I decided not to wait for T2?

I definitely think that a guggulsterone
product like Thyrolean or MD6 would be
a very good thing to use after having
made the mistake of using Triacana or Triax.
There’s a very good chance it could speed
recovery, since it does improve function
when in the normal condition.

Steve, I just re-read your question, and see that you haven’t started the Triacana yet. I’d recommend you don’t (as below) regardless of whether guggulsterones might help recovery.

Bill, when exactly do you expect the T-2 to come out? Is “shortly” a matter of weeks or months or what?

OK, this is not official… I can’t speak
for Biotest on this. This is NOT a prediction
from Biotest or T-mag on when it will be
available. However, the personal estimation
I’ve made for my own planning, based on
the information I have, is that T2 will be
for sale within 4-8 weeks and I’d bet on
the sooner side of that rather than the later.

I don’t have an official word on the estimated
release date of T2, and so what I’m saying is just me. It isn’t Biotest or T-mag.

But the guess I’ve come up with for my own
personal planning, based on the information
that I have which is incomplete (for example,
I don’t know if labels have been printed yet)
is 4-6 weeks. More than 8 weeks I’d be very
surprised, less than 4 weeks, I’d be very
surprised. Either is possible from what I
do know, however. “Ballpark” is the best
guess I can give.

Actually, in this business, you don’t ever
really know when product can ship, until you have the finished product on
hand and you have your lab assay results
verifying it meets label claims. Until
you actually can ship right now there’s
really no sure prediction of when that date
will arrive. Not with a new product.

i keep hearing that usnic acid is clastogenic at low doses but the only studies i’ve been able to find on medline show this to be true with mice at doses of 100mg/kg of bodyweight which is far higher than that recommended by syntrax. can someone point me to these other studies?

Roban, the thing is, mg/kg in mice doesn’t
translate milligram for milligram to man.

Mice have way faster metabolisms and it takes
far more drug per kg to see toxicity in them,
as a general rule. 50-100 times is quite common.

Was the dose used in the mice more than 100 times the dose recommended for these usnic
acid products in bb’ing? No, and unless it
was a lot more than 100 times there would
still certainly be serious question. Actually
I think it was about 50 times, but that
depends on what dose is currently being
recommended by these people for usnic acid.

Also keep in mind that with these mitochondrial uncoupling agents, take a few times more than the “correct” dose for fat loss, and you DIE. These mice not only did not die, no one noticed any thermogenic effect. Doesn’t this strongly imply to you that the dose wasn’t an overdose for the mice in terms of thermogenic effect?

If the mice showed signs of chromosome breakage before overdosing in thermogenic effect, isn’t that alarming to you?

BTW, this fact that LD50 (the dose that kills
50% of animals) is typically 50-100 times
higher in mice, mg/kg, than in man, is known
to the sellers of this stuff. They just omit
it from their public arguments. It’s called “intellectual dishonesty” and having no scruples.