DL Help

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

[quote]g’em wrote:
DominicanDL wrote:
First off, great pulling. The secret to your weak point is plain as day on your video. Look at the point where you fail…your butt is shooting out and your back is almost parallel to the floor.

As soon as your butt shoots out you’ve taken your hips out of the lift and are left to struggle with a modified stiff leg deadlift. Try to keep your head and butt as close to the same plane as possible. A conventional deadlift should begin like a strong leg press…keep that back straight and upright! Your a month away from your meet, don’t kill yourself pulling to failure 3 weeks before the meet. work on technique at 80% 1RM till the meet. You’re not dropping the bar so I won’t comment on grip but the closer you hold the bar the less distance it has to travel.

yeah, getting that ass down is seriously something I need to work on. It’s the one thing I have trouble with. For some reason when I try to keep my bum lower down though my head seems to somehow lose “contact” with my legs and I can’t drive as hard with them. That probably makes no sense I know but as it’s what I’ve always done I guess I’ve tried to adapt around it and this is the result? I have great hip drive (very heavy pull throughs are no bother to me and my oly lifts are pretty good weight-wise) but there’s just something stopping me from fully implementing that strength on the DL.

[/quote]

Well, you’ve gotten a good bit of advice from everyone here so far. I can’t access the videos from my work right now, but I’m guessing by some of your comments that you are a relatively long limbed lifter/short torso. People of this style (I’m one) typically tend to try and use their backs more in a DL because typically the back is the strongest portion of their body (due to body leverage).

I think maybe the big thing is to avoid hiking up your hips first. In the squat the first thing that should move up out of the hole is your head/chest, instead of bringing your hips up and turning it into a good morning. Similarly in the DL, you don’t want your hips to move first, or fastest. Getting your hips closer to the bar is one way to do help this. Of course, you don’t have to “squat up” your DL, per se. It’s a dl, not a squat after all.

22

Can we see your backsquat? It may help…uh…yeah like none of you assholes were thinking it.

23

I think I found the problem. It looked like you were lifting in kilograms not pounds. Crazy Irish.

Just kidding, you look strong there, but you would definitely benefit from gripping it and ripping it. It’s tough to get the idea of the slow controlled BB style reps out of your head, but you need to pull the weight as fast as possible, even if its not a single. If you can do that, you will overcome inertia easier, and you’ll move some bigger weights.

Good luck at you first meet, and just work on form from here on out.

24

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Well, you’ve gotten a good bit of advice from everyone here so far. I can’t access the videos from my work right now, but I’m guessing by some of your comments that you are a relatively long limbed lifter/short torso. People of this style (I’m one) typically tend to try and use their backs more in a DL because typically the back is the strongest portion of their body (due to body leverage).

I think maybe the big thing is to avoid hiking up your hips first. In the squat the first thing that should move up out of the hole is your head/chest, instead of bringing your hips up and turning it into a good morning. Similarly in the DL, you don’t want your hips to move first, or fastest. Getting your hips closer to the bar is one way to do help this. Of course, you don’t have to “squat up” your DL, per se. It’s a dl, not a squat after all.
[/quote]

Hey Aragorn - I can honestly say I’ve no idea what my arm length: torso ratio is!! When my hands are by my side the palm of my hands sit on the widest point of my hip-bones if that makes it any clearer?

But you’re right, I think I do hike my hips up first and I need to fix that. I distinctly remember trying to rectify that a couple of weeks ago and as I tried to pull head/ chest first it felt as if my arms were tearing off and it pretty much frightened the bejeebus out of me.

The problem as well is that when I try and fix too many things at one time my blonde head gets completely overwhelmed, I lose focus and I can’t lift the bar and inch off the ground. Bless my cotton socks.

But I presume when you say to get my hips nearer the bar that just means keep the bar closer to me at the beginning as the others have pointed out?

25

[quote]MisterAmazing wrote:
Can we see your backsquat? It may help…uh…yeah like none of you assholes were thinking it.[/quote]

meh, after all the brilliant advice I’ve had I’m sure I’ll be coming back with requests for help with my squat too!! But seriously, it’s not pretty, not pretty at all… I’m nowhere near as confident with my squat as I am with my DL and I know on the day that it will either make or break my competition.

26

[quote]Modi wrote:
I think I found the problem. It looked like you were lifting in kilograms not pounds. Crazy Irish.

Just kidding, you look strong there, but you would definitely benefit from gripping it and ripping it. It’s tough to get the idea of the slow controlled BB style reps out of your head, but you need to pull the weight as fast as possible, even if its not a single. If you can do that, you will overcome inertia easier, and you’ll move some bigger weights.

Good luck at you first meet, and just work on form from here on out.[/quote]

lol, that’s one of the things I love about posting here - all my numbers are so much more impressive in lbs!!

You’re completely right though, I do need to stop thinking like a BBer when it comes to these big heavy (well, heavy for me) lifts. I’ve only been training as a PLer since Christmas so it’s quite an adjustment. “Gripping it and ripping it” eh? What a great description!!

I have a rather temperamental lower back (problems with my SI joint in the past) and I think that’s made me a little hesitant to rip it. But times they are a changin’, and it’s time to get properly aggressive with that bar. Thanks Modi!

27

Try going sumo, I’m your height too!

I’ll have my article on EFS about sumo DLing soon hopefully.

28

No prob

Yup lose the timid shit, worry about the rep at hand not the ones on later sets etc. If after a rep is done you got more then worry about that rep. The bar will hit your legs it happen you will bleed and have scars put baby powder on you legs and shorts itll allow it to slide if your worried about your shins run duct tape up them Im guessing yuou shave them so wont be bad getting it off or just accept the battle wounds

above all jkeep working hard and leanr to turn it ON. Oh and dont JERK the bar lay on the tension the explode give it your all but you should have tight tension on the bar before the explosion jerk and your asking for BAD things,

Phill

29

A couple of things that might help you between now and the big day:

Always reset between reps. This will help you to groove the lift better. God did not intend us to do more than 3 reps of deadlifts anyway. I always step away from the bar for a couple of seconds, reset my feet and go for it.

Concentrate on speed work between now and then. Given your target weight, I would start with 10x3 at 80kg, then add 5kg a week. Really blast it up. This will seem ridiculously easy, but it will keep you fresh and again, groove you into the speed necessary. A week before the meet, work up to a (relatively easy) max double. Then take the rest of the week off, and go in fully refreshed.

30

[quote]Phill wrote:

Great advice above I will add You can tell your new to this. Why your doing all the move slow. the eccentric and concentric. Many people do that when new to PLing etc. GET that damn load UP the faster you move it the easier it will be.

Sure the bar on max pulls will move slow but your aiming to move it fast. do the same darn thing with submaximal load train your self to always give 100% not just give what it takes to move said load. Treat the light weights like they are heavy and heavy weights like they are light. Get it done lock it out and put that darn thing DOWN. Like above poster said your expending a ton of energy lowering that bar great for added TUT but man save that for more pulls

Good work keep it up

Phill[/quote]

Dude, that was pretty much a 3 rep max… I doubt there’s anyway she coulda pulled it any faster!

31

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Phill wrote:

Great advice above I will add You can tell your new to this. Why your doing all the move slow. the eccentric and concentric. Many people do that when new to PLing etc. GET that damn load UP the faster you move it the easier it will be.

Sure the bar on max pulls will move slow but your aiming to move it fast. do the same darn thing with submaximal load train your self to always give 100% not just give what it takes to move said load. Treat the light weights like they are heavy and heavy weights like they are light. Get it done lock it out and put that darn thing DOWN. Like above poster said your expending a ton of energy lowering that bar great for added TUT but man save that for more pulls

Good work keep it up

Phill

Dude, that was pretty much a 3 rep max… I doubt there’s anyway she coulda pulled it any faster![/quote]

I bet dollars to doughnuts if she didnt spend half an hour on the concentric and gave her all moved that bar FAST with every thing she had she’d nail that same load for easy 4 maybe 5

My Opinion for what its worth

Phill

32

[quote]Phill wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Phill wrote:

Great advice above I will add You can tell your new to this. Why your doing all the move slow. the eccentric and concentric. Many people do that when new to PLing etc. GET that damn load UP the faster you move it the easier it will be.

Sure the bar on max pulls will move slow but your aiming to move it fast. do the same darn thing with submaximal load train your self to always give 100% not just give what it takes to move said load. Treat the light weights like they are heavy and heavy weights like they are light. Get it done lock it out and put that darn thing DOWN. Like above poster said your expending a ton of energy lowering that bar great for added TUT but man save that for more pulls

Good work keep it up

Phill

Dude, that was pretty much a 3 rep max… I doubt there’s anyway she coulda pulled it any faster!

I bet dollars to doughnuts if she didnt spend half an hour on the concentric and gave her all moved that bar FAST with every thing she had she’d nail that same load for easy 4 maybe 5

My Opinion for what its worth

Phill

[/quote]

i gotta go with phil on this…also exactly how slow do you have to lower it in this fed? any video of deads in that fed?–just curious

33

g’em,

Nice work on the deads.

I’m doing a meet on the same day out here in California, so maybe I can share what we’re doing with you as we peak for the meet.

We have 3 more deadlift workouts before the competition and what we try to lock in is our openers and our second attempts as well.

This upcoming workout, we’ll warm up and pull our opening weight for 5 single reps with about 3 minutes rest in between reps. This will get you very familiar with that weight and will make you concentrate on technique while a little fatigued.

Next week, we will warm up and hit the opening weight for 1 single. We then add our second attempt for 3 singles with 3 minutes rest in between.

Finally, the week before the competition, we warm up, hit the opener, hit the second, and go home.

Keep the bar as close to you as possible, keep your head up and butt down. I have yet to train someone new to the competition deadlift that had the perfect upright position. Give it a few thousand reps and you’ll get it. Also, you may want to decrease the amount of space in between the hands. This will put you in a little more upright position.

I’d like to be around 685/725/745 @ 220 lbs. on meet day. I’m sure you’re going to do great!

David

34

Some advice on form - some of the best I’ve ever read (from an article by Greg Teftt on dragondoor)

"My first real introduction to deadlifting was at the Rochester YMCA and the Iron Masters Powerlifting Club in Rochester, New York (1972-6) and more specifically, from Frank Savage who was one of this country’s most eminent power lifting gurus at the time, able to pull over 900 pounds at the time I met him.

Both Savage and the Pieriello Brothers (2 large and very strong dual competition focus powerlifting /bodybuilders ? a more common occurrence in those days as compared to the extreme specializations of today ? who could do seated behind in neck bar presses with outrageous weight) coached me in unison. “Simply go up to the bar, inhale while bending straight-backed at the waist and knees, locked left-hand under-thumb-grip with the right hand over-thumb-grip at palm’s width greater than shoulder width, pull the bar to the shins as you fall into a semi squat, back still kept straight as an “arrow” and then exhale quickly ? locking the abs and freezing the diaphragm ? as you lean back and lift the bar as you straighten your hips and knees as if you were going to fall backwards using the bar to keep you from falling over while pulling the bar literally over the top of your entire body to over your head in full extension.” (Obviously the bar and my hands would never go past mid thigh, nor would I fall back and roll the bar over my head to full overhand extension position as in a press, but the execution of this thought was intended to help me line things up in order to better visualize a larger picture of movement somewhat similar to the beginning of an Olympic clean and jerk movement).

And by the way, “skinning” the shins was considered entirely acceptable (blood is good!). Also I was reminded not to forget to shift the hips forward and squeeze in the “the butt cheeks” as I approached full spinal extension for maximum leverage and a better center of gravity. In effect the bar was supposed to be moving as close to the center of my body as possible either by pulling the bar to me or my body to the bar, whichever was most efficient at a particular movement point.

The big no-no in all this was to never “round out the back” which was to be held in semi arch at all times, both as injury prevention and for maximum leverage, which always go hand-in-hand. Other than that no-no, the idea was to get as close to the bar as possible throughout the movement, lock forearms, not bend the knees too deeply, use as little motion as possible, and to keep the movement as compounded as possible ? never letting the full weight rest on small muscle groups or unleveraged positions, rather use all the groups of the body around the hip as its primary fulcrum.

Needless to say, this actually felt pretty good and the weight seemed light while the shearing force/pressure was felt more by my hips and less in my low back than I imagined it would. Surprise, surprise, 315 pounds seemed to move with very little effort on my first official powerlifting deadlift day at a body weight of 179 pounds?although I was very sore/stiff all over for the next 72 hours. 315 pounds might not sound like much but keep in mind that I was fresh off an Olympic alternate status in swimming, and taking a fifth place in a track and Field Jr. Olympics ? so I was new to weight lifting and especially new to “real” dead lifts."

35

[quote]gags wrote:
Phill wrote:

I bet dollars to doughnuts if she didnt spend half an hour on the concentric and gave her all moved that bar FAST with every thing she had she’d nail that same load for easy 4 maybe 5

My Opinion for what its worth

Phill

i gotta go with phil on this…also exactly how slow do you have to lower it in this fed? any video of deads in that fed?–just curious
[/quote]

I don’t have any videos offhand, but I know I’m lowering the bar unnecessarily slow. I got a ticking off once before for dropping the bar haphazardly when I was done so I guess I’m taking it to the other extreme now!

Phill, thanks again, that’s some brilliant input. I know some of the lifts look relatively easy in the video, but trust me, I’m giving them my all and there’s some serious effort involved - that was only my third time ever pulling 300lb+. Even when I do speed work, it never tends to look very speedy at all!! I’m a cautious DLer but I’m trying to change that - and hey, I always have the Worlds to nail perfection at :wink:

36

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
Some advice on form - some of the best I’ve ever read (from an article by Greg Teftt on dragondoor)…

[/quote]

Thanks sharetrader, that’s a fantastic read, I appreciate it!!

37

[quote]drdgmuro wrote:
g’em,

Nice work on the deads.

I’m doing a meet on the same day out here in California, so maybe I can share what we’re doing with you as we peak for the meet.

We have 3 more deadlift workouts before the competition and what we try to lock in is our openers and our second attempts as well.

This upcoming workout, we’ll warm up and pull our opening weight for 5 single reps with about 3 minutes rest in between reps. This will get you very familiar with that weight and will make you concentrate on technique while a little fatigued.

Next week, we will warm up and hit the opening weight for 1 single. We then add our second attempt for 3 singles with 3 minutes rest in between.

Finally, the week before the competition, we warm up, hit the opener, hit the second, and go home.

Keep the bar as close to you as possible, keep your head up and butt down. I have yet to train someone new to the competition deadlift that had the perfect upright position. Give it a few thousand reps and you’ll get it. Also, you may want to decrease the amount of space in between the hands. This will put you in a little more upright position.

I’d like to be around 685/725/745 @ 220 lbs. on meet day. I’m sure you’re going to do great!

David[/quote]

Hey David- oooh, good luck in your competition too!! Thanks for the video link, it was actually lovely to be able to put a lot of the comments I’ve hear here into context and I can actually see much clearer where I can make improvements. Man that’s some strong pulling- I feel positively wimpy now with my meager three plates a side!!

I like the look of your training in the run up to the meet. The plan for me was to continue with low volume heavy lifts, adding 5kg per week for the next three weeks. As this is all so new to me I’m not in a comfortable enough position that I can gauge what’s “right” and “wrong” for me yet, but I guess that’s all part of the learning curve!! I really want to get a 150kg pull before the meet though to keep my confidence up.

And just a few more thousand reps to do before I nail my form eh? sweet!! :slight_smile: seriously though, that’s quite comforting to hear that I’m not the only one who finds competition lifting different to regular lifting. I’m hooked on PLing now though, and I’m really, really excited about this meet - as one of my friends said to me recently, I’ll only ever have one First competition so I’m going to make the most of it and enjoy every second!!

Best of luck to you (and Darrell)!!

38

Hey G,

Here are a few other things to consider:

Make sure you take enough food with you for an entire day. Nothing sucks worse than being stuck at a meet with no access to food. Try to make it a mix of real food and supplements. You need the real food to give you that full feeling.

Don’t overload on stimulants/caffeine. Take whatever you are accustomed to taking. I’ve seen a few lifters hurl all over the head judge during their first squat attempts because they jacked up the stimulants way over what they were used to.

Go to the rules briefing if they have one. Ask questions if you’re not sure of the rules of the lift, or equipment guidelines.

Take the extra time to get your rack heights accurate. Unracking an unloaded bar in the squat is a lot different than a loaded one. Give yourself an additional pin setting lower to compensate for body compression.

There are a lot of things that you’ll pick up on meet day. The nice thing is you’re competing raw and that will keep things simple for you. You’re gonna have a blast!!

39

Excellent pulls! Lots of good advice already but I’ll add a few thoughts. You definitely need to keep your butt in and shoulders higher. You could pull faster and lower it faster as long as you wait for the “down” command and don’t let the bar slip out of your hands on the descent.

Since you lift conventionally, touching your shins with the bar shouldn’t scrape you since they’ll probably be contacting the smooth part of the bar. Good luck!

40

Just thought I’d give you guys an update about how the meet went. It was the IDFPA (Irish branch of the WDFPF) Nationals, I was lifting unequipped @78kg 171lb).

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice, I was able to put it in practice over the last few weeks and while my DL is still nowhere near perfect it’s certainly coming together.

The one thing that really helped was keeping my shoulders back which in turn helped keep my ass down and my pulls have been a lot smoother as a result.

Of course, I’m sure that when I look at the videos of the meet I’ll cringe at some of my form issues, but hey, at the end of the day in a competition you just gotta get the bar up!!

Lift 1: 120kg (264lb)
Lift 2: 140kg (308lb) New European Record
Lift 3: 150kg (330lb) New ER + PB

After breaking the ER I got a fourth attempt:
Lift 4: 158kg (348lb) New World Record

I’m really, really delighted with my pulls, all but the last went up pretty easy and the last one was a bit of a grinder but the crowd + adrenaline came to my rescue!!

I also got a new WR for squats (130kg/ 286lb), National Record for bench (62.5kg/ 138lb) and a ER for total (342.5kg/ 754lb) so I qualified for the Worlds in November. I couldn’t have asked for a better day and it was quite an experience as a first-time competitor!! Roll on the Worlds!!