T Nation

Diversity: Who, What, Why, When, Where

I have been away for a while due to personal reasons, hence I was only responding to the original post.
And no, diversity is not necessary. Many civilizations did fine with no diversity. But where there is diversity, it’s best we all try to get along. We live in a place with great diversity, which is neither good or bad, it’s just a thing. Living with each other in peace is the best possible case. But whatever benefit diversity may have in a particular environment is irrelevant to the fact of its necessity.

A Bentley may be better than a Ford, but it does not mean you need a Bentley.

I think it depends on what you mean by doing fine without diversity. The non Greco-Roman European peoples would still be living one step above cavemen if there had never been contact between them and the founders of Western Civilization.

Not within my company, but we are an oilfield service company.

So I show up at meetings in Midland or Houston or Dubai and do work for whatever oil company and set out how a well should be drilled.

So it’s engineers/geologists from wherever outside my company. Even if they know I own the company, they assume I am there because of minority-owned-business hiring requirements. (We’ve never bothered to get certified as such, mainly because I think it’s crappy and I don’t need that to get all the work we can do.)

Very annoying. I wish these laws would go away.

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I think the Chinese would be cranking along fine.


They didn’t need the Mongols or Marx.

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Lest there be any confusion what diversity actually means to its advocates, a black woman presented a nonconforming point of view and it was shot down because it wasn’t in line with group think.

Diversity of thought has some value, but it is a false pretense for supporting racial and gender diversity.


As an advocate of diversity, I can confirm this statement is a bold faced lie

Explain how that’s a lie, please.

Serious question. Not sure I followed you on that one.

If we don’t provide opportunities to people of all backgrounds then (1) we aren’t living up to aspirational language such as “all men are created equal” and (2) we create a system that will eventually result in violence and possibly revolution. I see the benefit in the sense of fairness of opportunity which we haven’t achieved. Fairness in result is not my goal but it’s a damned shame to waste talent and I’m not sure we can in a competive world.

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This was the claim about diversity advocates.

I am diversity advocate and it doesn’t fit.


edit: if lie isn’t the best verbiage lets go with “blatantly incorrect assumption”

Ok. I had to reread your point and hers/his. There’s a ring of truth to the group think thing but it misses the continuum of opinions.

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Sometimes I’m dealing with a “Representative.”

Maybe it’s the dude on the phone, representing the cable company. Or the lady at the water department, representing the local government. Or the bartender, reprensenting that business.

Anyway, I’m talking to that obtuse jerk-off, and I think, “For shit’s sake, is there someone Else here who can help me?!”

Incidentally, China is actually VERY diverse - it’s just that the ruling Han sideline and suppress all other ethnic groups in pretty much all walks of life and present a homogeneous picture to foreigners.

Tajiks, Uygurs… just to name a few minority groups. Some of them almost look like stereotypical Caucasians and can be extremely disconcerting to a Westerner used to box people in different racial categories…


I would say ‘fine with out diversity’ means that folks in a non-diverse environment can live happy purposeful lives without any interference from other cultures.
Can we say that say the ‘Huli Wigmen’ tribe would be better off if we flew in there with computers and infrastructure modernization, smart phones and modern transport? Sure they may get to crap in a nicer toilet then squatting next to a tree, but their lives and culture would be completely different and not necessarily better, and perhaps even worse.

Would someone from England today say that he would have been better off without the intrusion of Western culture? So that tribesman might very well be happy right now but if he knew he could be on a smartphone while taking a dump on a toilet he might not feel so happy.

There are a couple of problems with how diversity is artificially established:

  1. Using my useless (and now dead by suicide) brother for example. He was full blood Apache and very smart. Good athlete. The minority version of National Merit Scholar (which gets all the perks, but he was just very smart, not genius smart). Because of the foregoing, very elite school schools were kicking down the door for him. He went, did mediocre, got a degree. Despite a 2.7 GPA, giant wall street firms broke the door down to hire him. He was a mediocre employee, but kept getting promoted. He was paid well, got hooked on blow, sold blow (and apparently did really well at this) and got arrested as part of a racketeering charge. He killed himself in lieu of going to prison for 20 years, and I now raise his children.

Long story short, for the “chosen” they are special snowflakes, not actually challenged in life, and doomed to fail.

I avoided this problem by joining the Army and going into combat. In such a roll, there are no snowflakes. At least not for long.

  1. The way Affirmative Action works is inevitably quotas. Well, the “law of large numbers” being what it is, the following groups will be disproportionately represented in an academic meritocracy: Jews, Asians, Anglo whites, typically Northern European.

So a certain amount of them get unfairly screwed for the sins of somebody else.

And a certain amount of less qualified people get in. It’s inevitable. The number of complete idiots from my tribe who got scholarships to big schools amazes and disgusts me.

  1. As touched on above, actually qualified minorities are (rather reasonably) viewed as special snowflake tokens until you prove otherwise. That’s a complete pain in my ass.

  2. The entire concept is antithetical to a meritocracy.

Now, I am all for suing the crap out of companies that discriminate. But Affirmative Action diversity is garbage. It hurts way more than it helps.


On the topic of diversity of thought vs diversity of identity

Talk about this more please.

What does this mean, to you? Being a diversity advocate.

I acknowledge that our views are shaped by our experiences. As such, the only way to holistically gather the various views (that all may have varying levels of “correctness” or “bestness”) is to include these views in what you gather.

As experiences tend to group themselves in a broad view by a variety of demographical factors (age, gender, race, etcetc), the only way to statistically increase your chances of gathering the various views is to intentionally increase diversity.

As an obviously lame and loaded example. Let’s say you run a business. The target area is S Detroit. Your business is credit assistance in the sense that you help manage people with bad credit/history and get them on the road to a better life. You start your business, and exclusively hire non local white men who have never had a credit score below 800 and come from rich families.

In this obviously loaded example, it would almost certainly benefit you to hire a local with personal experience in having poor credit/etc (or any such combination of better factors) that can relate to and understand the pros and cons of the things your business does from a practical standpoint.

Now scale this to a company the size of McDonalds/Walmart/Amazon in a global marketplace.

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If they didn’t know any better, they would be fine. People have an amazing ability to adapt. And the younger you are, the more adaptable you are.
Over all, I would say it’s better for it. But I am not English and we have inherited a great deal from them, in as much as they inherited from us.