Eating is bad.
[quote]algian wrote:
Just wait until someone says eating is bad.
I’m counting the days![/quote]
Nothing tops pushdowns for hitting the triceps hard in the contracted position.
In addition, they’re great for cross-stimulation of the lats (admittedly static).
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
… i spend so much time in the gym with other movements doing tons of sets i can’t seem to make time for another 15 minutes with a movement like tricep pressdowns.
[/quote]
15 minutes of pressdowns?! How many sets do you plan to do!
I love pressdowns. They make a great finisher for a big bench day. The isloation-aversion will pass, just like all the other fads that come around every couple of years to make people buy a whole new library of fitness books. As long as your doing the basic push/pull/squat/DL, extra isolation work only stands to further your gains, not hinder them.
Now I am not fitness expert, I’m under 21, and I’ve never lifted for more than a year consecutively, and I certainly didn’t come to this thread to challenge Charles Poliquin’s knowledge, but cable pushdown is all I do and I definitely see it translating directly into helping my bench a lot.
I ditched them months ago and my tris are growing better than ever.
I only do 3 exercises specifically for Tris:
On chest day - Lockouts 4 sets
On Shoulder/bi/tri day:
- 4 sets close grip bench press
- 4 sets of Skull crushers performed to failure then do 5 or so reps with Negs to the skull and pressed back up. Also may rep out a few extra CG presses once the Negative skull crushers are shot.
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
It is nice to see that the aversion to isolation movements is finally dying down.
Cosgrove is right…under reaction, then over reaction. Most guys who do pressdowns are guys that have no basic strength anyway, and it seems to me that they should be doing the compound exercises.
Then, of course, the guys who should be doing pressdowns get scared away by all the hype about “compound workouts”.
You’d think that people would eventually just try it for themselves and see if it works for them, but I guess not.
I, of course, like pressdowns, but heavy benching has produced more results in the tricep area for me.[/quote]
Liam Bauer gave me some awesome advice once at a seminar for MMA fighting:
“One of the most important things I could pass on to you in the world of performance fitness is that two contradictory pieces of advice don’t necessarily cancel each other out”
What a great point.
So often we read that “low reps, heavy weight” is what is needed to develop thick thighs. Then we hear that squatting for reps will help us thickenour thighs.
There is a sort of panic. “Fuck! I’m not doing what I need to do get/maintain my thick-assed-thighs! WhaddoIdo?!!?”
When I have that experience, I remember Liam’s advice. Two pieces of seemingly contradictory advice do not necessarily cancel one another out.
I use them, but I like them using a supinated grip…either both arms or single-arm.
Bigragoo…give close grips another shot using a decline bench and/or a 1.5-rep scheme.
[quote]4est wrote:
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.[/quote]
Can we bitch slap you, too?
CG bench and dips are my primary tricep exercises, but sometimes by the time I get to them I’m so freaking tired that to do them might not be the safest thing. I keep pressdowns in reserve when my body is telling me to take it easy. Anything that makes a muscle burn (a good burn) like that can’t be all that bad.
[quote]Fenris wrote:
I think everyone is against isolation movements lately because people tend to ditch the effective (re: HARD) exercises for them. Leg extensions and ham curls will never be as good for leg development as squatting and RDLs.
Now, if you’re already squatting and doing RDLs, then extensions and curls can help supplement that. But in most gyms, you don’t see a lot of people doing the “money” exercises. But, man, do they love their isolation (re: EASIER) exercises. (Aside: I never see the guys doing curls in the squat rack even get half the arm size of the guys that deadlift and never curl- GET OUT OF THE SQUAT RACK, CAPT’N BICEPS!) This doesn’t even take into account athletes whose recovery abilities are already stressed to the max.
Isolation can have its place (rehab/prehab especially), if the compound movements are already there (I, for one, LOVE pressdowns). But I think the above is why people are against so called “isolation” movements lately. [/quote]
I think you’re totally on the money here.
When trainers were talking anti-isolation movements they were talking to a crowd that does not squat, does not deadlift.
The message can get kind of skewed.
Squat and deadlift…If you got more in you, go ahead and isolate something.
Good post, Fenris.
I personally find most of the “coaches” on this site to be full of shit!
[quote]4est wrote:
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.[/quote]
You’re not stupid. But you may be guilty of not paying attention. Many have indicated that lying triceps extensions (or skullcruchers) are painful on their elbows.
For myself, I feel some elbow discomfort from the movement, but like it for the stimulation in the stretched position. I just make sure I warm-up properly and keep the movement very strict.
I too like the press up/extension negative combo.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
I love pressdowns, especially with the rope. I don’t find that dips and close grip bench hits my triceps like pressdowns do. Those other compound movements nail my pecs harder than my delts and triceps.
I do them all. I want to put at least another inch on my triceps and the only thing that will do that is a combination of pressdowns, dips and even kickbacks. The only exercises I don’t do are overhead triceps extensions and lying french curls. both of those movements hurt my elbows for some reason.[/quote]
I had this same problem until I changed my elbow position slightly.
For example, when you do Lying Tricep Extensions do you place your elbows behind your head or in some other position over the head?
I know that there are many ways to perform this movement and I found that bringing the elbows more over the head than behind it stopped the elbow pain that I was having.
Cable Pressdowns are a staple in Ed Coans training routine. He has quite the impressive powerlifting resume!
Well personally, when I train a client once or twice a week, it is often the case that they will not come in on their own. Or if they do, the intensity of their workout proves to be very minimal.
In the case that I know they will have 1 or 2 hours a week in the gym, I would rather spend the time with them working on compound movements that offer more “bang for their buck.” If I do use curls or pushdowns with them, they are usually supersetted at the end of the workout.
Again, this is different from a serious trainee who trains 4 or 5 days a week and has time and more importantly, the will to devote to a more well rounded program.
As Dave Tate says, “Everyone wants to major in the minor shit.”
You give a rank beginner the option of doing dips or cable pushdowns at the end of the workout, and if they are less of the self motivated type, they will often choose the pushdowns. Someone more advanced does what they NEED to do, but also knows enough about their body to throw in additional movements effectively.
-MAtt
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Matgic wrote:
Everything can have a role someplace in a program.
Granted, 700lb 4 board presses will generally do “more” for your tricep strength, I believe that pushdowns can have their place as well. Louie reccommends band pushdowns for high reps to build work capacity and for recovery. In the “Road to the Arnold” DVD, I see Ryan Kennely doing pushdowns after his 990lb board presses.
If a person HAS TO ditch an exercise, it’d probably be better to ditch pushdowns than a compound movement. But, if the person is dedicated to improving their strength and physique and they won’t get lazy and skip the basics, the small stuff can help.
-MAtt
So, why are so many trainers suddenly so against isolation movements? Could be as simple as finding “something” to be against that was originally a basic foundation in bodybuilding so that newbies would turn away from the many years of knowledge gained there and only look to those trainers for further assistance?
Could this be about book sales and new clients? Naw.[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
I love pressdowns, especially with the rope. I don’t find that dips and close grip bench hits my triceps like pressdowns do. Those other compound movements nail my pecs harder than my delts and triceps.
I do them all. I want to put at least another inch on my triceps and the only thing that will do that is a combination of pressdowns, dips and even kickbacks. The only exercises I don’t do are overhead triceps extensions and lying french curls. both of those movements hurt my elbows for some reason.
I had this same problem until I changed my elbow position slightly.
For example, when you do Lying Tricep Extensions do you place your elbows behind your head or in some other position over the head?
I know that there are many ways to perform this movement and I found that bringing the elbows more over the head than behind it stopped the elbow pain that I was having.
[/quote]
When I did them (which was years ago now), my elbows were pointed straight up in the air. I have honestly not found dropping those two exercises to hinder development at all. My triceps don’t stick out like Ernie Taylor’s, but they aren’t tiny.
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
4est wrote:
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.
You’re not stupid. But you may be guilty of not paying attention. Many have indicated that lying triceps extensions (or skullcruchers) are painful on their elbows.
For myself, I feel some elbow discomfort from the movement, but like it for the stimulation in the stretched position. I just make sure I warm-up properly and keep the movement very strict.
I too like the press up/extension negative combo.[/quote]
I only do high rep pressdowns for recovery. I love skull crushers and throat crushers. They have never hurt my elbows.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
When I did them (which was years ago now), my elbows were pointed straight up in the air. I have honestly not found dropping those two exercises to hinder development at all. My triceps don’t stick out like Ernie Taylor’s, but they aren’t tiny.[/quote]
Yea…I’m with you on the need to do them.
But as far as the position of the elbows, while they are pointing straight up in the air (and you are lying down) are they behind the head, or more even with, as in over the head/face?
Moving the elbows more over my face eliminated the elbow pain that I had when I was doing them with the elbows more behind the head.
Can you picture any of this?
[quote]4est wrote:
I ditched them months ago and my tris are growing better than ever.
I only do 3 exercises specifically for Tris:
On chest day - Lockouts 4 sets
On Shoulder/bi/tri day:
- 4 sets close grip bench press
- 4 sets of Skull crushers performed to failure then do 5 or so reps with Negs to the skull and pressed back up. Also may rep out a few extra CG presses once the Negative skull crushers are shot.
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.[/quote]
You’re not stupid, you found what works best for you. Consider yourself lucky, as many people will never figure that out.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
4est wrote:
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.
Can we bitch slap you, too? [/quote]
Only if you call me Sally.