Ditch the Burqua, Bitch

[quote]orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Besides Saudi Arabia and the sattelite Emirates, Burqas are not at all a common sight in majority-Muslim countries. Covering the hair with a scarf is more common, although Wreckless’ one-third proportion doesn’t apply to majority-Muslim countries. If I was to pull out a figure out of thin air, I’d go with 1/10th.

In any case, I never saw a woman with a “burqua” in school or working in a public administration (at least a front desk) in Morocco. I imagine that it must be a huge communicative handicap, when you’re unable to read body language. Some countries, such as Turkey, banned the headscarf from schools altogether, let alone the “burqua”.

Sifu, what’s up with the word “apartheid”? Did you feel threatened by pieces of tissue? Seriously? Do you also feel prejudiced against is black neighborhood because of all the bling? Do you feel the same way when Italians wear their Fila sweats? Do you see the dress code of priests and nones as an “overt statement of predjudice and religious apartheid”? You do seem to make up a lot of stuff in your little head (maybe with the help of your favorite newspaper). Interpreting a headscarf as a sign saying “Muslims only, everyone else fuck off!” is just sick. You must be a sad little man.

Then how come burquas are so common among muslims in western countries? That perception does not seem to support your assertion.

I have never seen one in my life.

Except on tv when reporting on Afghanistan.

[/quote]

I have seen them in the backwards red-neck state of Georgia. I feel bad for them really. Especially in July, it gets hot as hell here.

[quote]pat36 wrote:

I have seen them in the backwards red-neck state of Georgia. I feel bad for them really. Especially in July, it gets hot as hell here.[/quote]

I don’t know if I have ever seen a burqua but I have seen plenty of muslim women with their faces covered.

[quote]orion wrote:
I have never seen one in my life.
Except on tv when reporting on Afghanistan.
[/quote]

I’ve seen some of them here in the capital and it creeps me out every time.
Granted, it’s not a sight seen often and it’s always a 40+ years husband, but that doesn’t mean SHE could not be a young, unhappy and abused lass.

I’m against symbols of religion used by state officials, public servants etc. but a general ban does no good to anyone.

[quote]lixy wrote:
How do you know a Muslim from a practitioner of another faith on the street?

If you label everyone with “frown lines and a somber face” as a Muslim, then the answer to you question is starring you right in the face.

Believe it or not, non-Muslims (whatever that means) don’t have a monopoly on humor nor laughter.[/quote]

My neighbourhood is known to the locals as “Lebanon North”.

Also the veil or whole-body robe is usually a dead giveaway.

I’ve been surrounded by Muslims in school and in the neighbourhood since I was in kindergarten, when the refugees poured in from Lebanon and Palestine.

I have a unique perspective on what it is to be “non-Muslim” in a Muslim community.

ElbowStrike

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
lixy wrote:
How do you know a Muslim from a practitioner of another faith on the street?

If you label everyone with “frown lines and a somber face” as a Muslim, then the answer to you question is starring you right in the face.

Believe it or not, non-Muslims (whatever that means) don’t have a monopoly on humor nor laughter.

My neighbourhood is known to the locals as “Lebanon North”.

Also the veil or whole-body robe is usually a dead giveaway.

I’ve been surrounded by Muslims in school and in the neighbourhood since I was in kindergarten, when the refugees poured in from Lebanon and Palestine.

I have a unique perspective on what it is to be “non-Muslim” in a Muslim community.

ElbowStrike[/quote]

Sucks to be you, mate.

Did you ever consider moving out?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sucks to be you, mate.

Did you ever consider moving out?[/quote]

Actually I will be moving out fairly soon.

So are you in agreement that living among Lebanese and Palestinian Muslims, as a non-Muslim, would not be an enjoyable experience? :wink:

ElbowStrike

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
Actually I will be moving out fairly soon.

So are you in agreement that living among Lebanese and Palestinian Muslims, as a non-Muslim, would not be an enjoyable experience? :wink:

ElbowStrike[/quote]

Sure. But, it doesn’t have much to do with religion. I wouldn’t want to be living in a place where “the refugees poured in”, much less their neighborhood. Be they from Nepal, Swaziland, Romania or Peru.

[quote]lixy wrote:
ElbowStrike wrote:
Actually I will be moving out fairly soon.

So are you in agreement that living among Lebanese and Palestinian Muslims, as a non-Muslim, would not be an enjoyable experience? :wink:

ElbowStrike

Sure. But, it doesn’t have much to do with religion. I wouldn’t want to be living in a place where “the refugees poured in”, much less their neighborhood. Be they from Nepal, Swaziland, Romania or Peru.[/quote]

Lixy, you if you think that all refugees behave the same, you are mistaken.
Don’t you think culture makes quite an impact on youngsters? Basically every time it’s a paternalistic, woman abusing, uneducated background, trouble will come.
Toss in a backward religion and the possibility to isolate themselves in some kind of a ghetto/little x/x-town, and the responsible politicians should be thrown in jail.

If you have the option to move with your family either to “Little Morocco” or a “Chinatown” district, I have a hunch where you’ll move to eventually.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Lixy, you if you think that all refugees behave the same, you are mistaken. [/quote]

You are misinterpreting my post. All I wrote was that I wouldn’t particularly like to live in a place where there is a high concentration of refugees. Why? Because of their propensity to frown.

Gee…you think?

Hum! Do us a all favor and introduce us to this “forward religion” of yours. Or is it oxymoronic?

And yes, cramming low-income uneducated folks in ghettos is a sure recipe for disaster. But that’s hardly news or insightful, now is it?

Trust me, you don’t have the first clue.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
pat36 wrote:

Then how come burquas are so common among muslims in western countries? That perception does not seem to support your assertion.

That’s because articles like these, with blatant lies. I quote directly from the article: “The Muslim community says only about 50 women wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes. They said a general ban would heighten alienation among the country’s about 1 million Muslims.”

“the country” is Holland.
About 1 million Muslims, that would be fairly accurate.
They said. That must be the “muslim community” in Holland.
The same Muslim community that claims 50% of the women wear burqas or niqabs.

Again, this is simply not true. I’ve live in Belgium and there’s a strong local muslim community. I’ve never seen a women wearing a burqa or veil.

Yet, when you call out this lie, you get a liar like Zap, covering his friend Foo Yun Chee, the original liars back, and question your reading comprehension.

Tell me Zap, who’s reading comprehension failed. And where did it fail?

Yours failed. The article states 50 out of one million wear the damned thing. You claim that since you have never seen anyone in your local community that the author is a liar?

The Muslim community says only about 50 women wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes. They said a general ban would heighten alienation among the country’s about 1 million Muslims.

50 people. Not 50%!!!

You are a flaming idiot. [/quote]

Ok, it looks like I shot myself in the foot here. Don’t necesarily agree with the flaming idiot part though.

Where did Pat get the notion then that “burquas are so common among muslims in western countries?”. Did his reading comprehension fail as well?

Also, why are reports about 50 veiled women in Holland discussed on this forum? Why is this reported on Yahoo in the first place?

Would you believe that nobody is discussing on ANY European forum the number of Yanks wearing cowboy hats?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Don’t you think culture makes quite an impact on youngsters? Basically every time it’s a paternalistic, woman abusing, uneducated background, trouble will come.

Gee…you think?

If you have the option to move with your family either to “Little Morocco” or a “Chinatown” district, I have a hunch where you’ll move to eventually.

Trust me, you don’t have the first clue.[/quote]

Well, here’s a few things I’ve observed over the years:

To be more fair I’ll use the label “Arabic” as that is more accurate. You are correct in that I cannot tell they are Muslim simply by looking at them.

These are most, if not all, school experiences. Since graduating I put as much distance between myself and the Arabic community as possible.

  • In the first grade, several incidents of Arab male students spitting on female teachers. Raised to believe no woman can tell them what to do, I can only assume.

  • I have never seen anyone else ever spit on a teacher. Ever.

  • A non-Arabic girl starts dating an Arabic guy. Immediately she is no longer allowed to associate with her previous male friends. Any attempts at social contact are met with threats of physical harm or worse.

  • A non-Arabic girl catches the eye of an Arabic guy. He asks her out, she says no. What does he do? He comes back the next day, and the next, and the next. She says no every time. Then he’ll invariably get his male Arabic friends to start harassing her. When she gets the school administration and police involved, she’s met by three random Muslim males while walking home and receives a beating.

How dare she not submit to the Arabic males? After all she’s a Western whore and should spread her legs for anyone, right? Right?!

Despicable.

The Edmonton Public Schools and Catholic School boards now have special professional-development courses in order to train new teachers and staff how to deal with, yes this is the actual term, “The Lebanese Problem”.

  • Regular spray painting of “Hizbollah” and “PLO” on the washroom walls.

  • Guess which ethnic group was disproportionately being arrested by the police for weapons possession?

  • Guess which ethnic group was disproportionately being arrested for dealing drugs?

  • Arabic students piling into minivans to go into the Jewish neighbourhood to randomly attack people. Yes, this actually happens. Regularly. I’m not making this up.

They essentially decided to turn a nice, peaceful corner of Canada into a violent, shit-storm microcosm of Israel and Palestine.

(Funny. The Jews never caused us any trouble. They just kept to themselves, worked hard, and did business. Maybe the Arabs could learn something from that).

  • By contrast, all dozen or so members of the Muslim Students’ Association were on the honour roll and took the majority of the student academic awards. The valedictorian was Muslim 2 out of 3 of my high school years.

Perhaps the devout Muslims are not the ones we should be worried about, but the ignorant masses who call themselves Muslim, but abandon its values when it conflicts with savage aspecs of Arab culture, or generally whenever they see fit.

  • Also by contrast, the Chinese generally immigrate into a country and immediately get to work, saving wages, spending little, investing heavily, and eventually buying up franchises all over town so they can enjoy a wealthy lifestyle.

So far as I’m concerned every last Arabic immigrant with any criminal record whatsoever should be rounded up and put on a leaky boat to Gaza. With any luck they’ll sink on the way.

Any “refugee” found associating with organized crime, or committing any criminal offense whatsoever, should be sent back to their country of origin. What happens to them there is none of our concern.

ElbowStrike

Pre 9-11 I did have a higher opinion of Islam. I don’t hate Muslims, I’ve had a few friends who were Muslim. In fact I have had more Muslim friends than Buddist’s or Hindu’s. Even though I have a higher opinion of Buddism than just about any other religion.

I do feel there are aspects of Islam that need to be faced up to by the Muslims. ie. When I see the way that women get treated in Islam I don’t like what I see.

Wearing religious uniforms is an age old practice that is done by many religions. I think it is something that all religions need to move away from. It is no different from the Crips and the Bloods wearing Blue or red, showing their colors. The old Ice T line “hey fight me, cause I’m ready to fight and die for my colors” comes to mind, when I see people wearing their religious uniform.

Red. Yes Grooverider was a twat. But four years of a mans life over a little bit of weed and a porno mag is excessive and cruel.

Admittedly he was a dumb high-on to not check his luggage thoroughly before he left.

Then again in Dubai the police can drug test someone at the airport to see if they have used drugs in their home country. If he had been given a piss test and failed he would have gotten four years.

If you look past the really modern skyscrapers you find the government there are a bunch Nazi’s.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Would you believe that nobody is discussing on ANY European forum the number of Yanks wearing cowboy hats?[/quote]

Lol! Cowboy hats…I’d rather fiddle with myself under a burqua…

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Red. Yes Grooverider was a twat. But four years of a mans life over a little bit of weed and a porno mag is excessive and cruel…If you look past the really modern skyscrapers you find the government there are a bunch Nazi’s. [/quote]

Yeah, I think it’s excessive too - this individual case at the very least.

But mate, like I said, you wouldn’t call Thailand, Singapore or Malaysia draconian, or run by nazis…would you?

Look, I’m gonna stop with the Dubai thing now. I just bought it up naturally, cuz I live here and now I happen to read/post on T-Nation. There are lots of things which this place can improve upon but I do think it might also come in for just that little extra criticism given its location. Perhaps you could say suspicion at the least, hostility at the worst…

nuff said!

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
I have never seen anyone else ever spit on a teacher. Ever.ElbowStrike[/quote]

What! You’re kidding me right? Mate maybe you should take up teaching in the UK…

It does seem that some of your experiences with the Lebanese refugees have been less than stellar…but honestly, some of the comments seem like they could be applied to lots of other groups in Canada or America…

Don’t other immigrant communities have gangs, problems with weapons - either in or out of school?

Also, the whole ‘gender relations’ issue - the way which these guys can treat local women etc. It’s not that I doubt your observations. But this is actually a really archetypal characteristic of immigrant communities - or it can be. I don’t want to get too Freudian and yet at the same time, we shouldn’t dumb down…but suffice to say, a lot of analysts put it down to classic fears/insecurities by the males of that particular group. Feelings of loss of power, authority or control…how do they seek to restore that?

It is wrong, of course it is. But again, in the States or in Canada, are you saying this same syndrome - I think it is a syndrome - can’t be applied to other ethnic groups??

I’m askin because I’m a Brit! You tell me…


Red bull, I am thoroughly envious. Dubai is always somewhere I’ve wanted to go. Kind of like New York without the crime… or maybe Singapore without the Chinese.

Back on topic, above are the various veils and headscarves in question, just so we all know what we’re talking about.

Just as a matter of curiosity, nowhere in the Qur’an is it written that women must wear a veil. This is strictly a pre-Islamic Arab custom, that was later exported to Persia, India, and the rest of the Islamic world.

Oh, and Lixy, I hate to contradict you about your native language, but the word burqa actually does derive from the Arabic verb barqa’a, to veil or cover.


Should these girls be banned from wearing their veils as well?

And what of these ladies? Does the sight of them strike terror in your heart?

These dudes are pretty freaky-looking. They must be some kind of Mafia terrorists. Let’s ban those spooky black fedoras and trench coats, and give 'em all a haircut.