T Nation

Ditch the Burqua, Bitch

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080123/15/15m6o.html

Seems our Dutch brothers and sisters don’t dig bitches wearing burquas. Kind of freaks them out, it appears.


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Reading this article, I get a sneaking suspecion these people don’t know the difference between a burka, a veil and a headscarf.

In they don’t know what they’re talking about, they should shut the fuck up.

And Wilders is an asshole who deserves to be bitchslapped.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Reading this article, I get a sneaking suspecion these people don’t know the difference between a burka, a veil and a headscarf.

In they don’t know what they’re talking about, they should shut the fuck up.

And Wilders is an asshole who deserves to be bitchslapped.[/quote]

Seems they differentiated between them quite well. Work on your reading comprehension.

That doesn’t mean much, coming from you.

The article throws everything together. I’ve never seen a Muslim women wearing a burqa. I’ve never seen a Muslim women wearing a face veil. I’ve seen plenty of Muslim women, probably about one third of them, wearing a colorful head scarf though.

Yet the article states “The Muslim community says only about 50 women wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes. They said a general ban would heighten alienation among the country’s about 1 million Muslims.”

That’s a blatant lie.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
That doesn’t mean much, coming from you.

The article throws everything together. I’ve never seen a Muslim women wearing a burqa. I’ve never seen a Muslim women wearing a face veil. I’ve seen plenty of Muslim women, probably about one third of them, wearing a colorful head scarf though.

Yet the article states “The Muslim community says only about 50 women wear the head-to-toe burqa or the niqab, a face veil that conceals everything but the eyes. They said a general ban would heighten alienation among the country’s about 1 million Muslims.”

That’s a blatant lie.[/quote]

There is the reading comprehension thing again.

Burquas are rare in the Western world. You admit it yourself. The story claims that there are 50 women in country that actually wear one. I see no reason to dispute this.

The story also claims a ban may alienate one million Muslims. This may be true. They do not need to wear a burqua to get upset.

Where is the lie?

I’ve lived in a comunity where a lot of women wore burquas, niqabs or scarves. So I can tell you what it is like to be surrounded by it.

Wearing burquas, niqabs, head scarves all have the same purpose. They are a sign saying, Muslims only, everyone else fuck off!

They are an overt statement of predjudice and religious apartheid. I can see why the Dutch don’t like them.

If they have a million Muslims living there, then I seriously doubt only fifty are wearing them.

There are one MILLION Muslims in Holland? Damn, all the stuff about a Muslim takeover of Europe is true. Soon, THEY’LL be passing laws that no Christian can wear a crucifix or no priest can wear a collar. Everyone will have to fall to their knees five times a day — good thing Wreckless has plenty of practice with that! (j/k)

We are seeing great and ancient cultures being squashed before our eyes…

Ironically, I disagree with the Dutch. I think the women should dress how they see fit, in the name of liberty. However, I see how they can feel affronted by the garb.
I think only ugly women should wear burquas.

Of course westerners like us and the Dutch think that shit is weird. Cultures where the women are made to conceal themselves and be subservient are strange and foreign to us. I don’t believe strict Islam and Western society are compatable.

Besides Saudi Arabia and the sattelite Emirates, Burqas are not at all a common sight in majority-Muslim countries. Covering the hair with a scarf is more common, although Wreckless’ one-third proportion doesn’t apply to majority-Muslim countries. If I was to pull out a figure out of thin air, I’d go with 1/10th.

In any case, I never saw a woman with a “burqua” in school or working in a public administration (at least a front desk) in Morocco. I imagine that it must be a huge communicative handicap, when you’re unable to read body language. Some countries, such as Turkey, banned the headscarf from schools altogether, let alone the “burqua”.

Sifu, what’s up with the word “apartheid”? Did you feel threatened by pieces of tissue? Seriously? Do you also feel prejudiced against is black neighborhood because of all the bling? Do you feel the same way when Italians wear their Fila sweats? Do you see the dress code of priests and nones as an “overt statement of predjudice and religious apartheid”? You do seem to make up a lot of stuff in your little head (maybe with the help of your favorite newspaper). Interpreting a headscarf as a sign saying “Muslims only, everyone else fuck off!” is just sick. You must be a sad little man.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
I’ve lived in a comunity where a lot of women wore burquas, niqabs or scarves. So I can tell you what it is like to be surrounded by it.

Wearing burquas, niqabs, head scarves all have the same purpose. They are a sign saying, Muslims only, everyone else fuck off!

They are an overt statement of predjudice and religious apartheid. I can see why the Dutch don’t like them.[/quote]

I disagree. That is not their purpose at all. Whether you feel that way is something entirely different - but that’s not their purpose.

I am not fond of muslim women wearing the burqua - in public - in European/western countries, for all kinds of reasons.

And although I am not totally decided on the matter, I could easily understand a ban on burqas in places of public office, ‘possibly’ the workplace in general.

When it comes to normal, mixed schools, I am totally against it. I don’t even think it should be allowed for muslim schools.

I think the headscarf is in a completely different category. Can’t imagine how that could be deemed ‘offensive’…

Here’s an interesting piece;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7209024.stm

It’s a ‘nice’ read. Nothing particularly new - anyone who has travelled the region - will say the same, but still, it’s good to hear it…

I have lived in Dubai for the last 15 years. Now Dubai is uber-westernized, you could almost forget that you’re in a muslim country. But it still IS a muslim country. And if the truth be told, I reckon there’s a lot of people who could never imagine themselves living or working in one…

Dubai is Dubai, it isn’t Damascus or Beirut. But still, it gives you the chance to meet people from the region. So I have some of the closest most stand-up people I know from Egypt or Iraq. I rub shoulders at work with Syrians and Jordanians. Occasionally I feel like throttling Iranians and Lebanese…

Underneath all the madness and politics and chaos which is going on right now, most of these people are still, essentially, the same as you and me. As good or bad as the rest of us. Not the fanatics or the fundamentalists. Obviously not. They’re fanatics and fundamentalists! But the rest, the average guy on the street?

Someone made a remark on another thread telling someone else to go and join all the other idiots in Iran. Heh! It’s okay, I’m not riled, aint Iranian or Arab. But I get the feeling you could have substituted half the other countries in that remark too and the sentiment would still fit…

That’s a shame. I been thinking for a while about going skiing in Lebanon with a couple of mates. At the moment, Petra is in the middle of a tourism boom too.

I guess you just got to meet people to know them. And from where I’m looking, nobody’s got the monopoly on idiots…

[quote]lixy wrote:
Besides Saudi Arabia and the sattelite Emirates, Burqas are not at all a common sight in majority-Muslim countries. Covering the hair with a scarf is more common, although Wreckless’ one-third proportion doesn’t apply to majority-Muslim countries. If I was to pull out a figure out of thin air, I’d go with 1/10th.

In any case, I never saw a woman with a “burqua” in school or working in a public administration (at least a front desk) in Morocco. I imagine that it must be a huge communicative handicap, when you’re unable to read body language. Some countries, such as Turkey, banned the headscarf from schools altogether, let alone the “burqua”.

Sifu, what’s up with the word “apartheid”? Did you feel threatened by pieces of tissue? Seriously? Do you also feel prejudiced against is black neighborhood because of all the bling? Do you feel the same way when Italians wear their Fila sweats? Do you see the dress code of priests and nones as an “overt statement of predjudice and religious apartheid”? You do seem to make up a lot of stuff in your little head (maybe with the help of your favorite newspaper). Interpreting a headscarf as a sign saying “Muslims only, everyone else fuck off!” is just sick. You must be a sad little man.[/quote]

Then how come burquas are so common among muslims in western countries? That perception does not seem to support your assertion.

[quote]red bull wrote:
It’s a ‘nice’ read. Nothing particularly new - anyone who has travelled the region - will say the same, but still, it’s good to hear it…

I have lived in Dubai for the last 15 years. Now Dubai is uber-westernized, you could almost forget that you’re in a muslim country. But it still IS a muslim country. And if the truth be told, I reckon there’s a lot of people who could never imagine themselves living or working in one…

Dubai is Dubai, it isn’t Damascus or Beirut. But still, it gives you the chance to meet people from the region. So I have some of the closest most stand-up people I know from Egypt or Iraq. I rub shoulders at work with Syrians and Jordanians. Occasionally I feel like throttling Iranians and Lebanese…

Underneath all the madness and politics and chaos which is going on right now, most of these people are still, essentially, the same as you and me. As good or bad as the rest of us. Not the fanatics or the fundamentalists. Obviously not. They’re fanatics and fundamentalists! But the rest, the average guy on the street?

Someone made a remark on another thread telling someone else to go and join all the other idiots in Iran. Heh! It’s okay, I’m not riled, aint Iranian or Arab. But I get the feeling you could have substituted half the other countries in that remark too and the sentiment would still fit…

That’s a shame. I been thinking for a while about going skiing in Lebanon with a couple of mates. At the moment, Petra is in the middle of a tourism boom too.

I guess you just got to meet people to know them. And from where I’m looking, nobody’s got the monopoly on idiots…
[/quote]

Can you get liquor there anywhere? I am just curious. You work in Dubai? I take it your loaded…Do they have nice gyms there or do your have to improvise…Actually, I have a lot of questions, Dubai is an interesting place.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Then how come burquas are so common among muslims in western countries? That perception does not seem to support your assertion.
[/quote]

I’ve been all across Europe (save for the more Eastern parts), and never ran across a single person wearing a “burqua”. If we’re to believe the OP’s article, 50 out of 1,000,000 people wear it in the Netherlands; that’s not exactly a figure which prompts the use of the term “common”, now is it?

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Then how come burquas are so common among muslims in western countries? That perception does not seem to support your assertion.

I’ve been all across Europe (save for the more Eastern parts), and never ran across a single person wearing a “burqua”. If we’re to believe the OP’s article, 50 out of 1,000,000 people wear it in the Netherlands; that’s not exactly a figure which prompts the use of the term “common”, now is it?[/quote]

I agree with Lixy. If they are fleeing from their homelands and trying to get away from their medieval religion, why would they wear a symbol of the oppression?

Maybe Muslims who have fled the ME will one day go back and conquer it, and try to establish some sort of civilisation there, instead of the rule by thugs and mullahs.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Can you get liquor there anywhere? I am just curious. You work in Dubai? I take it your loaded…Do they have nice gyms there or do your have to improvise…Actually, I have a lot of questions, Dubai is an interesting place.[/quote]

Mate, you can get liquor anywhere and everywhere. We got bars and nightclubs. Buddha Bar opened here about a year ago - I believe it’s now London, Paris, Dubai. All the top dance/house DJs, whether they are from the states, Europe or anywhere, come out here. Justin Timberlake just played out here, Kanye was out here and if I’m not mistaken Chingy is doing a gig end of this month!

I am not loaded, at all. But you are right, a lot of people - as in most expats, especially western ones are.

Along with the corporate packages, it’s really just the whole lifestyle. Honestly? The nearest comparison would be the States, anywhere Eastcoast…I hear San Francisco and Vegas a lot…

The whole corporate gym culture has literally exploded here in the last three years. Fitness First is opening up everywhere, in every complex, building, development etc…

It’s a great place for a holiday. Tourism is what Dubai does best…

Redbull if Dubai is so bloody wonderful why is Grooverider going to spend the next four years in jail for having a joint of weed and a wank magazine?

Yes the Burqua is an instrument of seperation. Seperation is their stated purpose in the quran. Why? Because divisiveness, is the very essence of Islam. Islam is all about taking sides. This is why muslims are constantly in conflict with every other religion in the world and amongst themselves. Because they are constantly looking to divide people up into groups. Division breeds conflict.

Burquas and scarves are used to delineate territory. It is no different from how a dog will piss on something to mark it’s territory. It is a way of letting everyone know who owns what and that rivals should stay away or there will be trouble.