T Nation

Distance Running?

I ran the mile for the track team my senior year of highschool, i love it until i noticed that i had gone from a skinny 5’8 155lb during football to a sick looking 140lb.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
OBoile wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
You develop the aerobic system with aerobic training. You develop the anaerobic system with anaerobic training. If you participate in a sport with an aerobic component (which is almost every sport), you need to be doing some aerobic training. If your sport practice doesn’t provide enough, you need to supplement with additional aerobic training in whatever form that may be.

There is really no getting around that, no matter how popular intervals may be right now.

Agreed 100%.

The Thinker and Mark M. on elitefts.com have several posts regarding the effect of training at various intensities on the body and the heart in particular. Long story short: aerobic and anaerobic work produce different physiological responses and for the vast majority of sports aerobic work should be included. For most athletic endevors, doing only anaerobic work may be adequate, but it will certainly not be optimal.

One other thing I’d like to add: aerobic training does not just mean long slow distance. It is possible to do intervals at aerobic intensities.

The problem is people who do distance work and those that don’t tend to have very different viewpoints on Distance running. Long distance to me is 2 miles or anything over 10 minutes, I’ve met runners who would crack up laughing when I say that. These coaches deal with athletes who’ve trained all there lives and keep a basic conditioning, long distance might mean 30+ minutes. Of course they’re going to think daily long distance is bad. [/quote]

30 minutes isn’t that long. In fact, it is likely on the low end of duration.
This guy:


frequently includes 30 - 60 minutes of “cardio” in his training.
That being said, doing it every day is probably not necessary (this would depend on your sport and your current state of fitness). It also is done at a fairly low intensity - typically talking pace.

the Jon Chaimburg pod cast is excellent- really he is against distance running- because of the High Intensity
of the other training he advocates- He believes the impact of feet on pavement grass etc-
when done extensively has an impact on recovery.

He is also a HUGE proponant of pushing sleds, sprints and tabata.
His view is about the recovery of the athlete- something he takes very seriously- particularly when a fighter is peaking for a fight and is also doing 4 to 5 hours of other work per day.

really Both kinds of training has its place in your programming-
longer runs neednt be slow- or low intensity.

For wreslting in college we routinely ( daily in my case) ran over 10 miles.
I ran 10 to 13 5 to 6 days a week- none of it slow- 6 minute miles 10 or more of them isnt slow
is it the best way to train?
maybe not.
is a good way for someone who is trying to actually be smaller or stay small ,
depends on your goals mine at the time happen to be about being smaller
trading in that roadwork for an extra meal.

I would be more of mind to advocate- 3 to 5 mile runs- obviously for time. mixed with plenty
of other sprint , hills , sled work or other anaerobic work.

Tabata is great, I just think there is room for both kinds of work.

[quote]OBoile wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
OBoile wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
You develop the aerobic system with aerobic training. You develop the anaerobic system with anaerobic training. If you participate in a sport with an aerobic component (which is almost every sport), you need to be doing some aerobic training. If your sport practice doesn’t provide enough, you need to supplement with additional aerobic training in whatever form that may be.

There is really no getting around that, no matter how popular intervals may be right now.

Agreed 100%.

The Thinker and Mark M. on elitefts.com have several posts regarding the effect of training at various intensities on the body and the heart in particular. Long story short: aerobic and anaerobic work produce different physiological responses and for the vast majority of sports aerobic work should be included. For most athletic endevors, doing only anaerobic work may be adequate, but it will certainly not be optimal.

One other thing I’d like to add: aerobic training does not just mean long slow distance. It is possible to do intervals at aerobic intensities.

The problem is people who do distance work and those that don’t tend to have very different viewpoints on Distance running. Long distance to me is 2 miles or anything over 10 minutes, I’ve met runners who would crack up laughing when I say that. These coaches deal with athletes who’ve trained all there lives and keep a basic conditioning, long distance might mean 30+ minutes. Of course they’re going to think daily long distance is bad.

30 minutes isn’t that long. In fact, it is likely on the low end of duration.
This guy:


frequently includes 30 - 60 minutes of “cardio” in his training.
That being said, doing it every day is probably not necessary (this would depend on your sport and your current state of fitness). It also is done at a fairly low intensity - typically talking pace.[/quote]

You proved my point exactly.

I agree about the impact of long duration runs on the body. I do either:

12 x 5-minute rounds alternating between shadowboxing/footwork drills, jump rope, and light kicks

or

60 minutes of sled drags with just 2 plates, switching every 3-10 minutes between forward, backward, rowing, pressing, sideways crossover steps, etc.

Both done for a total duration of 60 minutes keeping my heart rate between 130 and 150 beats per minute. I have lost a little weight but no strength (have gotten a bit stronger on some exercises even) and from a visual check, no muscle mass either. My resting heart rate has dropped and my heart rate drops faster while I’m resting in between rounds.

I think everything has it’s place, but to not do any aerobic training for a sport with an aerobic demand is foolish, IMO. Of course, some athletes may either:

a.) Already have sufficient aerobic conditioning
b.) Have sport/technical training sessions structured (whether intentional or not) such that they provide sufficient aerobic development.

Another tangent to help us focus on what the OP had originally asked about: “distance running”

Most would agree that “Distance Running” is anything over 5,000 meters on the track and 5k / 3.1 miles on the road and I think that is the beginning distance area to avoid, especially on a regular basis and if running… if jogging and or walking… well, that is another story but what a waste of “life time” unless done with a family member as in hiking in the mountains…

So Sprints and Middle Distances are fine and are encouraged for overall conditioning and athleticism. An all out one or two-mile run would be fine or even better a nice couple sets of 200 or 400-meter sprints on the track. I just happen to prefer my 20 to 200 meter Hill Sprints especially since they have kept me injury free which means a lot in my world and have translated well to my work requirements.

What say you???

I have listed the generally accepted Running Distance Categories below:

SPRINTS: 100 meters up to 600 meters track including the indoor 50 meter Dash and 60 meter Sprint; the field 40 yard Dash (36.576 meters); and the 90 meter Beach Sprint.

Shorter training sprints, hill sprints, and stair runs/climbs would fall into this category.

MIDDLE DISTANCE: 800 to 3,000 Meters track including the “two-mile” (3200 Meters); 3k (1.86 miles) road

LONG DISTANCE: 5,000 to 10,000 Meters on the track; 5k, 10k, and the Half-Marathon on the road

MARATHON: 42.2 kilometres (26.2 miles)

ULTRAMARATHONS: anything over a marathon including multi-day races of 1000k and more.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
OBoile wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
OBoile wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
You develop the aerobic system with aerobic training. You develop the anaerobic system with anaerobic training. If you participate in a sport with an aerobic component (which is almost every sport), you need to be doing some aerobic training. If your sport practice doesn’t provide enough, you need to supplement with additional aerobic training in whatever form that may be.

There is really no getting around that, no matter how popular intervals may be right now.

Agreed 100%.

The Thinker and Mark M. on elitefts.com have several posts regarding the effect of training at various intensities on the body and the heart in particular. Long story short: aerobic and anaerobic work produce different physiological responses and for the vast majority of sports aerobic work should be included. For most athletic endevors, doing only anaerobic work may be adequate, but it will certainly not be optimal.

One other thing I’d like to add: aerobic training does not just mean long slow distance. It is possible to do intervals at aerobic intensities.

The problem is people who do distance work and those that don’t tend to have very different viewpoints on Distance running. Long distance to me is 2 miles or anything over 10 minutes, I’ve met runners who would crack up laughing when I say that. These coaches deal with athletes who’ve trained all there lives and keep a basic conditioning, long distance might mean 30+ minutes. Of course they’re going to think daily long distance is bad.

30 minutes isn’t that long. In fact, it is likely on the low end of duration.
This guy:


frequently includes 30 - 60 minutes of “cardio” in his training.
That being said, doing it every day is probably not necessary (this would depend on your sport and your current state of fitness). It also is done at a fairly low intensity - typically talking pace.

You proved my point exactly.[/quote]

What point was that exactly?

[quote]brads1111 wrote:
enhancedfp.com/10-reasons-why-i-dont-do-prolonged-aerobic-exercises

Elevated cortisol production
Which causes a breakdown of muscle tissue and increases fat storage or depot fat. People do aerobics to alleviate stress yet end up creating more stress.
[/quote]

same with weight training or intense interval training… more so in intense weight training… especially intervals utilizing moderately heavy weights.

wrong.

guess all those natural bodybuilders who do extended cardio have low test / hgh production… they are obviously castrated by aerobics.

weight training makes you hungry… so does interval training.

so does weight training or interval training… power lifters don’t get sore? that soreness doesn’t interfere with other “more productive forms of activity” such as jacking off to animal stak pictures?

intense interval sprint training doesn’t make you sore or completely fuck you for the day?

chronic weight training with heavy quasi isometric loads is going to reduce explosive power… type IIx will convert to type IIa… RFD will suffer, so explosive power will suffer… it takes longer to produce peak tension, because that is more beneficial to lifting heavy loads… a longer more sustained force output, instead of an all out peak and drop…

the same can be said for “chronic” aerobic work… no one here is advocating running 20 miles every day… you can greatly improve vo2 max using 1500m, 5k, and 10k intervals without negatively impacting power… its all about how you implement it… just like in periodizing for power, you start out with more volume and transition into higher intensity (faster runs)/lower volume (smaller distanceS).

if you cant maintain power while doing aerobic work and lifting, you are a god damn pussy.

one large meal completely offsets the calories burned during intervals, and especially weight training…

weight training can lead to chronic overuse injuries of the tendons, spine, knees, etc…

very intense interval training can lead to pulls or other injuries due to degrading form.

olympic lifters use squat shoes, totally amnesiasticly horrible whatever the fuck that means.

shortening of the muscle tissue/fasciae from anything less than full rom weightlifting movements.

weight lifting often causes tightness in the hips/back/shoulders.

wait, adrenaline isn’t secreted in sprinting or weightlifting?

i saw a bunch of WWE wrestlers die early, must be because of that there wrastlin’.

steve maxwell, you are a stupid fucking retard.

fuck your blog.

the problem is, many of these lazy fat fuck powerlifters are going to try and somehow tell people how to get into condition… dragging a dumb sled around for 4 laps, running a few sprints, and doing 50 burpees…

fuck the fuck off.

to obtain peak conditioning, you need;

  • strength work
  • aerobic work
  • anaerobic work

in addition to your sport specific work if you are an athlete.

god fucking dammit people are retarded.

fuck.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I agree about the impact of long duration runs on the body. I do either:

12 x 5-minute rounds alternating between shadowboxing/footwork drills, jump rope, and light kicks

or

60 minutes of sled drags with just 2 plates, switching every 3-10 minutes between forward, backward, rowing, pressing, sideways crossover steps, etc.

Both done for a total duration of 60 minutes keeping my heart rate between 130 and 150 beats per minute. I have lost a little weight but no strength (have gotten a bit stronger on some exercises even) and from a visual check, no muscle mass either. My resting heart rate has dropped and my heart rate drops faster while I’m resting in between rounds.

I think everything has it’s place, but to not do any aerobic training for a sport with an aerobic demand is foolish, IMO. Of course, some athletes may either:

a.) Already have sufficient aerobic conditioning
b.) Have sport/technical training sessions structured (whether intentional or not) such that they provide sufficient aerobic development.[/quote]

you are lucky you are not an idiot jtrinsey, and are rather a good coach… thats going to help you in your first mma fight :wink:

[quote]nobodyreal wrote:
Adarqui, thanks for pointing that out, you’re right–there are guys who run 5k etc and don’t have the emanciated look. BJ Penn(clearly not the ideal physique but not emanciated either) runs 10 miles a day when preparing for a fight. Nick Diaz, also not the ideal physique but definitely not an emanciated runner, also has long distance steady state cardio as a part of his training, and even competes in Ironman comps. And the Marines, before adopting a HIT approach to cardio still produced trainee’s who didn’t have the emanciated look.

Richochet, one of the highest quality posts I read. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]

joshua clottey runs 9 miles a day… sure he’s a freak… BUT 9 MILES A DAY… he’s JACKED and insanely explosive… he’s also in amazing shape.

floyd mayweather runs like every night…

the aerobic element has taken a hit due to all of the new gimicky approaches… people forget the basics are key… progressively overloading/improving your intervals, distance, and strength…

peace man

Adarqui, thanks for pointing that out, I know some of us were just thinking ‘ehh someone else will point this out’.

But his point about the measly calories burned from steady state cardio is probably a good point, and is the main reason for why shorter distance intervals are so much more popular now. When I run 3 miles(at a very slow pace) I only burn 400 calories, virtually nothing.

But yeah, I’m a slow plodder, just trying to salvage a little bit of the guys post. ^^

Also-in defense of slowly plodding along-If you are focusing on improving in weight training, it’s pretty damn hard to run any type of intervals. Your body just gets too beat down. I go through my periods where I’m focused on general conditioning, and I will run intervals–but how someone can be on a strength building program and run intervals is beyond me. But do 2-3 miles at a nice slow pace? No problem.

Just watched an awesome documentary on the SEALs last night-- those guys aren’t emanciated and they do 4 mile runs, at a decent clip even!(in response to the distance runners are all emaciated, sickly looking beings)

[quote]nobodyreal wrote:
Adarqui, thanks for pointing that out, I know some of us were just thinking ‘ehh someone else will point this out’.

But his point about the measly calories burned from steady state cardio is probably a good point, and is the main reason for why shorter distance intervals are so much more popular now. When I run 3 miles(at a very slow pace) I only burn 400 calories, virtually nothing.

But yeah, I’m a slow plodder, just trying to salvage a little bit of the guys post. ^^

Also-in defense of slowly plodding along-If you are focusing on improving in weight training, it’s pretty damn hard to run any type of intervals. Your body just gets too beat down. I go through my periods where I’m focused on general conditioning, and I will run intervals–but how someone can be on a strength building program and run intervals is beyond me. But do 2-3 miles at a nice slow pace? No problem.

[/quote]

For fat loss, it does appear that anaerobic intervals are the better option (although -completely IMO - I’d bet the best solution would be a combination of aerobic, anaerobic and weight training). However, for building fitness, aerobic and anaerobic work cause different adaptations. What you need is dependant on the requirements of your sport.