Disspelling Some of the "Huge Drawbacks to the Keto Diet"

I’m not sure I understand you correctly. Do you mean per kilo of bodyweight?

Some recent recommendations from nutrition experts are to increase protein when losing weight, mostly to minimize muscle loss but also to decrease hunger. So for maintenance or bulking .8g/lb is sufficient, for weight loss they are recommending up to 1.4g/lb. Would that be too much to stay in ketosis?

Put it this way, last weekend I had quite a large carb intake over both days - and not clean foods either. I stopped eating at 11pm on Sunday night, and embarked on my normal fast. I tested ketones at 7pm on Monday (+20 hours) and I was in moderate ketosis at 0.5mmol.

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Yes, per kilo of bodyweight. Good catch.

Increasing Protein When Losing Weight

That recommendation traditionally applies for individual who are on a higher carbohydrate diet; not Keto.

The Ketogenic Diet as well as Intermitttent Fasting appears to protect and preserve muscle protein due to ketones.

How Much Protein Is Too Much

The most effective method of determining that would be a Ketometer. You’d need to experiment to find out.

A Glucometer will also provide you with some short term feed back.

Kenny Croxdale

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But how many have actually tried it and adhered to it long enough to make an accurate assessment ?

This is a perennial issue with keto. Regardless of what people preach, and I include Phinney and Volek here even though I have huge respect for them, the fact is a basic absence of carbs causes ketosis. If you consume a huge protein intake and little else, you will enter ketosis. I have personally experienced this. One advocate of such an approach is strongman turned bodybuilder Jon Anderson, who talks about x3 grams per lbs! Sure, there are other arguments to be had regarding fuel efficiency and perhaps kidney health but that is another story.

Adherence

Any diet that is restrictive is hard to maintain and adhere to; that’s true of everything else, as well.

I have been on the Keto Diet for coming up on three years and have a pretty good understanding of it.

Kenny Croxdale

Gluconeogenesis

A high protein intake result in gluconeogenesis for the majority of individuals; protein converted to glucose.

You and some other may be Outliers.

Kenny Croxdale

Awesome. What’s your opinion thus far ?

That’s not exactly correct. Any form of protein consumption results in gluconeogenesis. People on so-called keto macros still convert protein to sugar.

Yes, some protein is converted to glucose. I should have gone more into that.

I should have stated that if too much protein is consumed, it kicks you out of ketosis.

Kenny Croxdale

KETO would be good for endurance and long distance athletes allowing body to feed off never ending fuel. Right ?

At least that’s what I found cyclists to be using KETO for. Mind boggling to me. I need carbs on a long ride. Especially sugar to give me that quick energy.

I’m not aware of any situation where keto is actually superior aside from diabetes or similar metabolic conditions. And even then keto might not be the only option.

Epilepsy and cancer is also where one starts on KETO.

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As is the way in this field, there is actually a study which claims the opposite. Regardless, fasting should in theory be superior as it ramps up autophagy - but that’s another story.

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And that is the dreaded fear right there - being kicked out of ketosis! :frowning_face:

Goldilocks

Yea, it’s similar to the Goldilocks fable; trying to find what’s just right.

I found a company (https://diathrive.com/) that has an inexpensive Glucometer with Test Strips plan.

I began random testing to check my blood sugar in fasting states and after meals. That provide me with some information but not enough.

My fasting reading was around 74 and my 2 hour post meal readings were usually around 94; with some readings up around 109, dependent on my food choices.

I then purchased the Mojo Ketometer. My reading are usually about 1.2. The highest reading was 1.5 with the lowest at .5, dependent on my food choices.

Kenny Croxdale

Yes, the Ketogenic Diet appears be an effective tool for epilepsy and cancer, as well as: Alzheimers, Parkinsons, Diabetes, Traumatic Brain Injuries, MS, Hungington’s Disease, Bipolar Disorder, ADHD, Concussions, etc.

Kenny Croxdale

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People are making this far more complicated because Keto is like a challenger to an established paradigm and this turns essentially into a power struggle, as dumb as this sounds. This does not only mean that there are “sides” where there should be none, but this also means that different players try to make it about something else. Most articles are written in bad faith.

The whole billion dollar supplement industry, wether they like it or not, must be diametrically opposed to a ketogenic diet, wether it is effective, healthy, sustainable or not.

Let’s make this clear first: I tried the ketogenic approach out but am on a omni diet now. I functioned very, very well on fats and protein. I have zero problems with losing weight as I’m more of a hard gainer and can easily adjust nutrition or expenditure. This was more of an experiment just like I did try out veganism (horrible stuff!). However, experiencing fat adaption was almost magical. Fat, and pretty much only fat went off like in a cheap advertisment. The only drawbacks were some cramps and minor, irrelevant things. On the other side, I experienced numerous little health benefits .
So personally, the whole thing was a total success story.

But that’s just anecdotes. The main thing what blew my mind is this: Keto is a large piece of the nutrional as well as the human health puzzle that was obscured until now.

It’s probably a good thing to reduce your caloric intake drastically once in a while or get fat adapted simply because our ancestors experienced meager times and our bodily systems are used to this. Wether you do keto(dieting) or some type of fasting is irrelevant. The more extreme carnivorism goes even further and allows the body to take a break from potentially inflammatory foods. Both approaches allow you to naturally reset your hunger, appetite and insulin management- which so many coaches, books, sites and merchants promised for decades with little success.
Boduybuilding promotes drug use (terrible!), supplements (interesting but honestly more often than nor a dud) and massive bouts of eating aka bulking. These aspects are all far, far more questionable than trying out a ketogenic diet.

If you’re willing to give it a go, here’s my advice to get into fat adaption easier:
Reduce stress, don’t chase PRs like crazy on a new hybrid Westside/Poliquin protocol. Get plenty of rest and sunlight during your transition. Make it as easy as it can be and make good use of your free time as there’s much less food pre involved.

And I truly wonder if this is due to all of the processed carb nonsense we have today that allows for these folks to heal and avoid facets of their illness.

Hey guys!

I´ve read you talking abou gluconeogenesis and I am doing some research regarding this. I´ve also saw you talking about TKD, so I am thinking that you already read the Lyle McDonald´s “The Keto Diet” e-book.

There, in the book, Lyle mentions the ketogenic ratio. Considering F as total fats, P as protein, and C as carbohydrates a ketogenic/anti-ketogenic ratio can be established as(*):

k/ak=(0,9×F + 0,46×P) / (C + 0,1×F + 0,58×P)

According to Lyle, this relationship is applied to obtain a keto diet for children with epilepsy since 1920’s. To do that it is just necessary to reach a k/ak index equal or greater than 1.5.

I am thinking that such index at 1,5 guarantees me that I am at a ketosys.

My interest in such topic is related to type 2 diabetes treatment without meds, just doing keto.

Could you, please, talking something about this?

(*) Withrow CD. The ketogenic diet: mechanism of anticonvulsant action. Adv Neurol (1980) 7: 635-642