T Nation

Disgusted With Our Education System


My uncle is a teacher in Rural alberta and he recently relayed to me that a school in his district has outlawed the concept of a failing grade...

From now on if a student doesn't pass they get a grade of...and I'm not kidding:
"success deferred"

The teachers are also not allowed to use red pens for corrections and not allowed to make any comments or corrections that might hurt the feelings of the student.

This is the most ridiculous development in a long line of ridiculous developments in political correctness and sensitivity training in our schools.


My own cousin was pushed through the 7th and 8th grade when he shouldn't have been allowed to pass the sixth. So instead of dealing with the difficulties of repeating a year and then developing intellectually the system decided to coddle him and thereby completely sabotage his intelect for years to come.

His guardians (my parents at the time) actually suggested that he repeat the grade but the administration said that "nobody fails at our school"...

Ridiculous...I hope all the parents out there are saving a ton of money because you're all going to have to bail your coddled children out of trouble for the next 50 years every time the world is mean to them.

I know this doesn't apply to all parents...but seriously...who comes up with something so ridiculous as "success deferred"?????


They are on about doing the same thing over here, i highly doubt it will happen though. But they were saying it was going to be called a "deffered success" not "Success deffered."


I'm sure there is a welfare system to take care of them. The government needs to justify taking all your money and this is a good way to increase welfare enrollment.


Man, on man..this could be one very long thread. Political correctness has ruined so many things it's not even funny...But right now I think being Politically Correct is only one of the very many problems that face the public school system. The public school system is so utterly infested with negative pressure from every single possible angle that it can't possibly get the job done.

The teacher's don't get paid nearly enough to care, the parent's aren't held responsible or accountable for homework, home discipline, etc., there aren 't enough school days, (they take a day off for "inservices" or what have you every other week and the school years keep getting shorter, the teacher's hands are tied and they can't discipline children hardly at all, class sizes are too big...etc, etc...the list could go on and on...

Anyway, I digress. All the above is why my kids are in private school.


Oh come on now -- we all know each and every child can be above the mean, and by changing the definition of failure we can eliminate it completely. Pardon me whilst I swig some more of this tasty Kool Aid.


i suport publik skoolz.


My wife has been a teacher ( in B.C. ) for about 12 years or so now. I don't think she has been able to 'fail' a student in all that time. I have always been amazed that they progress from one grade to the next regardless of ability. This makes each and every student at a different level, and they all require more individual attention than can possibly be provided.

I posted a while back in the politics forum about the 'illegal' strike the teachers staged here. The teachers wanted limits on class sizes and more attention to 'special needs' students. The government ( the teacher's employer ) simply replied they had no money for such frivolousness. The government, then arbitrarily extended the teacher's contracts until June, to avoid a strike. The teachers walked out anyways, and made some gains from their actions.

I am actually amazed that my wife is able to teach these children anything at all. I really find it funny when people comment that teachers have it so easy, they only work 6 hrs a day, and get 2 months in the summer ( without pay ) and xmas, spring break, blah, blah, blah....... They need it.

\|/ 3Toes


M8 thats Canada though not the U.S of A, or wateva. Its like saying us brits are like the French which obviously isn't true. They eat snails, while we eat fish and chips. We are world champions at rugby, they arn't.
We are seeded second in the world cup for 'Soccer' They arn't.

We are the best team in the world at cricket, which they don't even play even though they invented the game. Aussies take note, I don't care what you have to say about this u NO we crushed u. Also, the French are incredibly socialist. Whereas we don't even CARE about politics. Blair could launch a nuclear bomb and it might make page four in the Sun behind Jordan with her top off.

Anyhow to get back on topic, your wife would really have to be a teacher in the U.S. Not that I know anyhting about it.


Ending social promotion nationwide was just one wonderful thing that No Child Left Behind did.


Doogie - You were kidding, right??? I'm a teacher, and I'll tell you right now that No Child Left Behind is the goddamn worst piece of educational legislation that ass wipe in the white house has ever done. There are kids who need to be left back and should fail, whether it's because of low test grades, immaturity, or whatever else. No Child Left Behind is a walking excuse for allowing the kid who comes in late every day, cuts and does no homework to sue the district or school for not passing his or her lazy ass.


Nice teacher union response.

Read the legislation, and point out exactly where you think it says that social promotion isn't being ended and where it would allow a "kid who comes in late every day, cuts and does no homework to sue the district or school for not passing his or her lazy ass".


Doogie - That doesn't come from a teacher's union, it comes from the experience of having administrators who help to push these kids through because their parents threaten lawsuits if their kids aren't. I can name three districts around my area who all have "No Failure" policies also to address the no child left behind legislation.

It is poorly written, poorly interpreted, and poorly carried out. Tell me again that it's my teacher's union opinion when I see the 10th grade kid who I gave an overall average of 34 to, who cut me 89 times last year, came to class late well over 55 other times, and is now sitting in an 11th grade history class because his grade mysteriously moved up to 65 over the summer even though he never showed up to summer school. No child left behind - HA!!!


WTF? Does that make any sense or am I missing it?


Bingo. All NCLB did was mandate a lot of crap without giving the school any guidance to get it done nor any funds to pay for the additional agenda.

We could fund it easily if the GD Government would spend 20 minutes making obvious needed education reform policies, but that wouldn't put any extra money in their GD pockets, so..not bloody likely.


So, where in the legislation does it say that kids should be socially promoted? Where in the legislation does it make it easier for parents to sue? Did your school retain kids before the NCLB?

If your administration has poorly implemented and carried out the plan, that's on them. If your administration
buckles to shitty parents, that's on them. If you make excuses for why your student's fail, that's on you.

Edit to point out that in Texas, part of the way NCLB is implemented is that if you have more than 10 unexcused abscenses a year, you fail.



if a student skips class...consistently shows up late...doesn't do his homework ...ect...

why would it be the teacher's fault if this student fails?

I think that allowing said student to pass would be a disservice to not only the student but the community...

perhaps I'm not understanding your position correctly?


You guys are just figuring out the public school system is screwed up, my stars! My parents pulled me out in the 1970's, and we lived in a nice suburb in the midwest, not the inner city. No they weren't rich, and no they didn't do it for religious reasons, they just wanted me to get a decent college prep education. None of my kids have ever set foot in a public school.


How do you figure this?


Because it opens up 1 more reason for the parent to state that the school or teacher didn't do their job, whether that is the case or not. And, Doogie, while I will agree with your point about administration, the other problem lies with the parents and the fact that most have lost their sense of responsibility towards their child. Instead of coming down on their kids, punishing them (and no, I don't mean beat them, etc), finding them when they cut, and backing the teachers and administration up (as happened when I was in school in the 70's and 80's), they instead tend to put raising their children in the hands of teacher.

More than once, including the child I mentioned above, I've called a parent to try to work with them to help their child, but have been told, "He's not my problem anymore", "He or she is too out of control, I can't handle him", or, my all time fave, "I have bigger things to worry about than that mess". Numerous changes have been put in place to make the system better, but the parents need to get behind it as a whole. Go to a board of ed meeting and look. The same 5-10 sets of parents are there all the time, not the full room that needs to be there. Rarely do they all step up as a group anymore. It's actually the most depressing part of my job.


Doogie, you are so wrong and clueless about this topic I don't know where to begin.( start by reading the whole darn thing if you dare and then go and talk to a few public school teachers) The only thing NCLB is going to accomplish is to further the decline of public education in the US, but then again (IMO) that's what it was design for.