Discussion About Ramping/Flat Pyramids

ramping is just like warming up…lol

Well what gets confusing is ramping and warming up. For example I would gather from CTs stuff on bodybuilding that you warm up to your working sets and then do the number of sets/reps as work sets.

Lets say a classic bodybuilding setup of 12 sets per bodypart spread over 3-4 moves. Something Thib recommends all the time. We’ll use chest:

Bench Press 4x 6-8
Inc DB Press 4x 10-12
Cable Crossover 4x 12-15

Now when a person sees this I dont think that most people interpret this as:

Bench: 185x6, 225x6, 275x6 and then a top effort of 315x6
Inc DB Press: 75x10, 85x10, 95x10, and then a top effort of 110x10
CC: 100x13, 120x13, 140x13, and then a top set of 160x13

this is much closer to how Dorian Yates trained, only with about 2 exercises per bodypart.

I think that the vast majority of lifters trying to figure this all out have a logical right to assume that the coaches meant 4 sets of each execise with a load that was at or close to failure in the rep range for EACH SET. Thus making the standard chest workout above 12 “work” sets.

Ramping would only constitute 3 “work” sets even though I’m sure there is quality training effect from the submaximal effort sets.

I’d say that most lifters have a right to be confused because what they are seeing on videos is not the same as what they are reading.

DH

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
slick123456 wrote:
ok does any of you know a good article other than here lol that explains everything about ramping

Holy shit, you don’t need a degree to figure this out. You would need to have experienced some pretty horrific head trama if you can’t figure out ramping as the definition is in the word itself. Fuck.

Please nobody explain ramping any further than what was typed.

No offense OP it’d be better off if you figured out what works for you by you.[/quote]

Nah no worries lol none taken! lol haha i understand ramping inside/out, HOWEVER what i dont understand is how if you pick up a book on bodybuilding it mentions nothing about ramping, the nearest is phyramiding. You could go on a bodybuilding site and search ramping, you might find a little but not much, A search in google brings up a lot of ramped related articles but are just to this site and mainly forums lol. I asked if anyone knows of an article because i havn’t yet found anything about it, thats why i think its strange lol how did u all find out about it in the first place lol

[quote]slick123456 wrote:
thats why i think its strange lol how did u all find out about it in the first place lol[/quote]

This guy told me about it

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
slick123456 wrote:
thats why i think its strange lol how did u all find out about it in the first place lol

This guy told me about it[/quote]

His brother Frank is a real asshole

[quote]slick123456 wrote:
Ok all these years ive simply trained in a straight set format, after reading here how most pro’s simply Ramp to a heavy set on each exercise has made me think. Ive kind of got confused because when watching videos of these guys train they do RAMP up each set to a max set. But how come they never mention that they “RAMP” up to a max set, for example when looking at articles on their routines they make out they are doing 20 all out sets. What i find stange is the pros obviously do this coz it works well but its strange because i have not found another site talking about ramping except here. Yet the pros train like this in their videos?? its strange lol[/quote]

those “ramping up” you’re referring to are their warm ups…

Well, it depends on how one uses words.

Not saying that this is the only way to use them, but I use the term warm-up for sets with weights under 50% done for, you guessed it, warming up.

I use the term ramping for weights building up from 50% that are used in progressing up to the work weight.

And, not that you ask, but I use the term ladder for sets at the work weight but which are done with fewer reps so as to have the CNS and body ready for the real work set. E.g., perhaps a single and then a triple before going for the work set of 5. Whether the ladder sets, the ramp sets, or even the warmup sets are called for depends on the situation. E.g., if the last ramping set felt really heavy, and I did not feel confident I could get the 5 reps with the work weight if attempted at that point, I would likely do the ladder sets. But if it was clear after the last ramping set that I was ready to go all-out with the work weight, then I would. Similarly if I felt ready for the work weight after simply being physically warmed up, including perhaps just by the previous exercise, then there might be no ramping or even warming sets. It all depends.

However, as you suggest, some just use the term “warmup” to cover it all, and don’t use the term ramping.

I always warm up slowly on all or almost all exercises but I don’t do them with intensity. It’s a warm up so it should put some blood in the muscles worked, prepare myself mentally, prepare my joints, let me adjust position angle or whatever and generally start working up a sweat. But that’s it. I don’t want to take too much energy out from the work set which is the most important one.

Warm up is what it is. It prepares you for the work set.

funmetal

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
slick123456 wrote:
Ok all these years ive simply trained in a straight set format, after reading here how most pro’s simply Ramp to a heavy set on each exercise has made me think. Ive kind of got confused because when watching videos of these guys train they do RAMP up each set to a max set. But how come they never mention that they “RAMP” up to a max set, for example when looking at articles on their routines they make out they are doing 20 all out sets. What i find stange is the pros obviously do this coz it works well but its strange because i have not found another site talking about ramping except here. Yet the pros train like this in their videos?? its strange lol

Good observation. Read books and articles from most pro bodybuilders and they will indicate that they use straight sets in training. Yet, get a video camera on them and all of a sudden they are ramping to max load.

To me what this means is that for the camera they are showing off and want to lift as much as possible, but the reality of their day-to-day training is that they use straight sets.
[/quote]

Ronnie mentions ramping in his book…

The reason most don’t is the same reason that CT rarely if ever mentioned it… They assume everyone in bodybuilding knows about it.

Watch them train in the gym and they train the same as in their vids, the only difference may be that, say, Ronnie doesn’t always go all the way to a heavy double in the squat or deadlift. He’ll stop at 4 sets or so.

There are exceptions like Evan Centopani, but they are few and far in-between the pro ranks.

Haven’t we discussed this before…

[quote]slick123456 wrote:
well i guess that my point is that all these pros do ramping but theres hardly any information on the internet that explains this method?? thats why it confused me because these pro bodybuilders use ramping so it must be a popular method, but this is the only site i can find any info on it. This is the ONLY site apart from this that talks about Ramping which is named as “Flat Phyramiding” See link below

I just find it strange that there is very little info on a method used regularly by pro bodybuilders.
[/quote]

We’ve gone into intricate detail on this stuff.

Really, most pro’s don’t bother with the internet (or at least not until they attain pro-status), they learn their stuff from the owners and vets at whatever gym they start out at…
They have little reason to assume that people don’t know about their methods as it’s all common sense to them. They grew up/trained around people who used certain methods and thus copy them and eventually tweak stuff to suit their own needs.

And it’s not like this method is difficult to comprehend.

Also, while I don’t know about today’s books, back in the day the Weider books – say what you will about them – made all this clear.

And it used to be that everyone read the Weider books and mags.

I probably do more sets to reach my max than most I have observed. That is not to say the sets leading to my max (say in the 3-4 rep range) are not effective. They are. I usually start with 12 reps, and by the time I reach only being able to get 3-4 reps I am at or near 90% max. And I don’t add 50lbs on the next set. If I did that I would only get 5-6 sets. So for me it seems to work best adding 20lbs per set, sometimes less.

The other technique I like to employ is a sort of “ramp down”. This may also be known as pyramiding.
By the time I’m done, the last set (if say I’m on incline bench), may be 15 reps of as low as 100lbs.
This type of rep scheme is good to use approx. once a week to get a good recovery and avoid injury. Just a variation on the ramping. Like “beans” said “It should come natural”. All sucessful lifters have developed their own system based on how their body best reacts-not following a dictated “5 sets only”.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Also, while I don’t know about today’s books, back in the day the Weider books – say what you will about them – made all this clear.

And it used to be that everyone read the Weider books and mags.[/quote]

That is also why people don’t literally write it out all of the time, because anyone who has lifted weights for the last 10 years already knows that this is the most commonly used method.

I am very surprised to be reading that some here actually think the way they do…that when they actually SEE the pros train, they believe they are training differently than they usually do…as if what they read somewhere is the right way and the pro they are looking at is somehow training wrong just for that one video.

That type of logic just makes no sense. That is also why we keep recommending that people actually LISTEN TO THE BIG FUCKERS AND NOT THESE LITTLE PERSONAL TRAINERS. Most of the people running in circles wouldn’t be if they actually WATCHED how the big guys trained instead of thinking that every big guy got big by accident (or simply “genetics/drugs”) and that the personal trainer barely breaking 160lbs has the secret.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That is also why we keep recommending that people actually LISTEN TO THE BIG FUCKERS AND NOT THESE LITTLE PERSONAL TRAINERS. Most of the people running in circles wouldn’t be if they actually WATCHED how the big guys trained instead of thinking that every big guy got big by accident (or simply “genetics/drugs”) and that the personal trainer barely breaking 160lbs has the secret.[/quote]

What is amazing is someone here is going to read this and have an epiphany…

This has definitely been discussed a lot lately, but I appreciate that you guys continue to chime in. For some of us that were lead astray by stupidly paying attention to all the articles thinking we knew better or just too stupid to really make the connection when we started out, this has helped re-clarify what is truly important.

I have made more gains the last 2-3 months than I have in years, and it’s from skipping the articles, and coming here to the forums to listen to the bigger guys.

The only thing that I still wonder for me, is if I start my first exercise and ramp up to a top set, what about the subsequent exercises. Ramping again is suggested, but if say you went from Bench to Incline Bench and already feel warmed up enough, is it better to do 1-2 top sets right away (unless you’re lucky enough to still be benching 400 pounds or so, then I get that ramping is still maybe necessary), or do you still do 3-4 sets with ramping up to one top set.

If I do the latter (3-4 sets) then my top set on my 2nd exercise isn’t as much weight as if I hit it right away. With the goal being progressively heavier weights over time, would it be better to jump into the top 1-2 work sets on the 2nd and/or 3rd exercise until the weights are justified to do more ramping on those 2nd and 3rd exercises? On another thread (several times I think) Prof X has said that the ramp up sets still add value and help to build muscle.

Being as Big Prof X is, I will always listen to whatever he says. So I just wonder if I shouldn’t just do 3-4 ramp up sets to a top set on 2nd and 3rd exercises and not worry that it is a few pounds lighter than just jumping right into it, as long as I still add weight over time. Is that right?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
Also, while I don’t know about today’s books, back in the day the Weider books – say what you will about them – made all this clear.

And it used to be that everyone read the Weider books and mags.

That is also why people don’t literally write it out all of the time, because anyone who has lifted weights for the last 10 years already knows that this is the most commonly used method.

I am very surprised to be reading that some here actually think the way they do…that when they actually SEE the pros train, they believe they are training differently than they usually do…as if what they read somewhere is the right way and the pro they are looking at is somehow training wrong just for that one video.

That type of logic just makes no sense. That is also why we keep recommending that people actually LISTEN TO THE BIG FUCKERS AND NOT THESE LITTLE PERSONAL TRAINERS. Most of the people running in circles wouldn’t be if they actually WATCHED how the big guys trained instead of thinking that every big guy got big by accident (or simply “genetics/drugs”) and that the personal trainer barely breaking 160lbs has the secret.[/quote]

This.

It also doesn’t hurt to talk to the big guys at the gym. As long as you aren’t getting in the way or interrupting what they are doing (or iPod music), in my experience, they’re happy to give some advice.

[quote]isaac_allen wrote:

The only thing that I still wonder for me, is if I start my first exercise and ramp up to a top set, what about the subsequent exercises. Ramping again is suggested, but if say you went from Bench to Incline Bench and already feel warmed up enough, is it better to do 1-2 top sets right away (unless you’re lucky enough to still be benching 400 pounds or so, then I get that ramping is still maybe necessary), or do you still do 3-4 sets with ramping up to one top set. [/quote]

I trained chest today. The exercises included the HS widegrip, flat press and decline (pec deck tossed in last for two sets as a burn out…lighter weight). I ramped on ALL exercises. The only difference is that on the first exercises, I started with the lightest weight (only two 45lbs plates a side for the first set going up to 5 plates a side for the last for ten reps). For the second exercises, my first set was three 45lbs plates…then 4…then 5. I then started with 3 plates again on the decline.

NONE of these sets were useless. NONE of these sets were just me going through the motions. ALL sets aided in some way towards growth.

Prof X,

Great info. Thank you. I will implement this.

I just wanted to post on here that

A) I can’t believe people need this explained to them

B) isaac_allen you’ve got a great avatar

Why the fuck do people need an article for this most basic shit. That’s what happens when you get all your information from a website and never try anything out in the gym. The first time I heard about ramping, it only took one post from C_C (not even one of the long, intricate ones) then I got the basic concept and TRIED IT OUT IN THE GYM MYSELF.

jeez.