T Nation

Discuss Churchill's Strong Words


#1

I REALLY have been pondering over the most recent "Strong Words":

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." Sir Winston Churchill

I would like you guys thoughts.

Was Churchill saying that this was a BAD thing...or that it was good?

Was he just making an observation?

I'm thinking that it was saying as much about the person who HAS NOT found truth...in other words they tend to be the most vocal and the most ready to judge others.

Anyway...what are you guys insights? I've really been intrigued about what Churchill was trying to say.

Mufasa


#2

I'm pretty sure he meant it in a negative light. He was trying to say that people selectively believe certain things that gel with their predetermined opinions, and will disregard or ignore any new information if it conflicts with the conclusions they have already drawn.


#3

I've noticed that he is correct. I have been guilty of stumbling over the truth to prove a point or obtain a goal, only to brush it off and disregard it. Unfortunately, I've also noticed that when I do that the results are bad.
On a different note, it could be a good thing. When the reality of a situation is too ugly to face, and the denial coping mechanism kicks in, that is what actualy helps some people to survive situations that they may otherwise consider hopeless or fatal.
I guess truth has its pros and cons.


#4

I think that was meant in a totally negative light. I think you can apply it to everything surrounding the Iraq war and the current administration.


#5

Being a leader, you cannot admit you are wrong. Men are natural leaders - be it leaders of their family or a nation... it doesnt matter. They're still leaders, and on the whole, really enjoy it.

If you're hell bent in proving something, and you find out you're talking complete and utter non-sense, it's hard to admit you're wrong. Not only that, but as a nations leader, can you really put your hand up and say 'yeah, I've made a balls up and it's going to increase tax rates etc'. No you cant. You wont be popular.

I think, on the whole, it's the nature of the male. They have their own way of doing things... and it has to be something huge and monumental to change their oppinion.


#6

I don't take the phrase to be coming totally from the context of a leader. I think you can apply it to the population in general.

Stumble onto the truth (NO WMD's NO Immininent Threat) brush it off (Liberate, Freedom, Stay the Course, Shake our Will).


#7

Agreed, I thought I'd just emphasise a different way of looking at it.

You're spot on with the last paragraph.


#8

Elkhuntr,
Im sorry, but I am fairly sure you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Iraq. Either you havent been to Iraq and never heard the speeches given before the war, or you were in Iraq and never left a FOB.

If you listened to the news or were in the initial invasion, you would know that EVERY commander, including our Commander in Chief stated that WMD's were not the only reason for going into Iraq. The terrorist training camps that we destroyed were one reason, numerous UN violations were others, and the fact that the people of Iraq were severely oppressed were all reasons given.

I know you will say there were no training camps in Iraq, but you are flat out wrong. You also cannot deny (though you will try) the fact that Zarqawi was receiving medical treatment in Baghdad and then given an armed escort to the North.

The liberals can keep saying that Bush lied and the intel was wrong. They will never stop because they are sore losers. The fact is that there are numerous places in Iraq that coalition forces have been unable to search (ie. the hundredes of tunnels and underground bunkers that Saddam had). It might take a while to find all the proof we need, but Saddam had WMD's. I guess you dont consider Seren gas a WMD though. Because that has already been found.

I am so sick of liberals saying the war was not needed. It was needed. It is very unfortunate that men and women are dying, but I believe it is better to die in Iraq fighting these scumbags than to die fighting them in America because people like you fail to have the foresight needed by the leaders of the free world.

I wish you would get off your arrogant Bush bashing. You do not know what all has gone on, is going on, or will go on in Iraq or anywhere else when it comes to terrorists. You sir, are not qualified.

So I would appreciate it if you, people like you, and all the people that have protested my fallen friends' funerals would shut the hell up.


#9

general lee, bite me!


#10

Cool, this can also describe many areas of Africa. When do we strap up?


#11

2 funny parts to that.

  1. "We".

  2. Wait, we shouldn't be going into Iraq! Bush is a warmonger!

We should be invading Nigeria! We should be invading Chad! We should be invading South Africa! We should be invading Cote d'Ivoire! We should be invading Rwanda! We should be invading Eritrea! We should be invading Libya! We should be invading the Central African Republic! We should be invading Somalia! We should be invading the Sudan!

Only THEN "we" would not be warmongers.

In fact, it would make sense to invade everyone at once, the u.n./france would be all for it, and we have the military capability and domestic support. Also, the US military loves jungle wars in areas with no infrastructure or rule of law, they're easy to win and American people love to hear about getting involved in them.


#12

Someone dared to hold a negative view of jerffy's Alpha and Omega and he came a running like the cows to the hay truck.


#13

Shortround: are you still going on about that split personality thing? This is how I will win my arguments from now on. Instead of bothering to think, I will cry out: "Cheesecake, shortround, and the limpwrist are actually one person. Cheesecake is the same guy after he binges. Shortround is the same guy after he purges. The limpwrist is the same guy after he smokes dope and feels like pontificating."

Anyhow, back to cows, you should try eating them, they will help you with that weightlifting problem, much more than the steroids. When you have kids, give them milk. It might help them grow up to be tall and strong, although bad genetics can be a bitch!


#14

Jerffy, you're funny when you get angry! You better get back to that imaginary weight room in your head so you can keep lifting those huge imaginary weights you're so good at moving.

Love and kisses,

Elk


#15

e-hater wrote:
"general lee, bite me!"

Let me translate, Lee, this means you dominated him and he cannot respond.

He knows that he is close to having me repost what his party said given the same information.

Lee, I'll say what he doesn't have the grace to say: Excellent post.

JeffR


#16

Cream wrote:

"Shortround: are you still going on about that split personality thing? This is how I will win my arguments from now on. Instead of bothering to think, I will cry out: "Cheesecake, shortround, and the limpwrist are actually one person. Cheesecake is the same guy after he binges. Shortround is the same guy after he purges. The limpwrist is the same guy after he smokes dope and feels like pontificating."

Anyhow, back to cows, you should try eating them, they will help you with that weightlifting problem, much more than the steroids. When you have kids, give them milk. It might help them grow up to be tall and strong, although bad genetics can be a bitch!"

POST OF THE YEAR!!!

I'm glad I wrote it!!! (oh wait...)

Cream (aka me) keep up the excellent work.

There's no place like home....

JeffR


#17

e-hater wrote:
I don't take the phrase to be coming totally from the context of a leader. I think you can apply it to the population in general.

Stumble onto the truth (NO WMD's NO Immininent Threat) brush it off (Liberate, Freedom, Stay the Course, Shake our Will).

Of course, he was an imminent threat. Of course, he had undeclared WMD.
Of course, the President said that one of our goals was to liberate/free, promote Democracy, and stay the course from day one.

Of course that factory made chemical weapons. Oh, wait. It made aspirin. Funny how e-hater wasn't all over that one.

Remember: All intelligence reports are correct. That's how it works.

If happen to bomb an aspirin factory in error, it's ok. You are a democrat.

It's that easy!!!

JeffR


#18

I think Winston meant it as a bad thing. He was a keen observer of the individual and the consumate statesman. I also find him to be extremely quotable. Another quote of his re: truth.

"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.

The ability to lead well is rare. The ability to lead a nation well, alone, and against overwhelming odds, is worthy of praise. Winston certain did that. Interesting person to study.


#19

That aspirin factory was a casualty in the war on E.C.A. stacks. He was just exercising a little forethought. That makes it a clean kill.


#20

Winston was accusing one of the M.P.'s of getting something right from time to time.

It was during the 1930's during the buildup of the Nazi's.

The e-haters/pox's/lumpy's were saying, "It's no problem. The threat isn't imminent. Let's meet at Munich."

In essence, "Hey, you got one right. I'll bet you won't make it a habit."

JeffR