Let us say that someone has a bothersome thought rattling around his head. A thought like: I’ll never amount to anything. I’ll never amount to anything. I’m a loser, so I’ll never amount to anything.
I would put that in the so-called ‘demon’ category (using a Biblical term). That thought should be recognized as a lie, pulled up by the roots and cast out, so the host is no longer bothered by it.
I don’t believe in separate demon entities, spawned by Satan, floating around looking for a host to inhabit.
Any so-called ‘demons’ are mental neuroses. Some weak, some strong. Some mildly entrenched, some deeply entrenched.[/quote]
No, that is not demons. I’ve seen people possessed, and it’s not just a self-doubt. If you ever see a real demon, you won’t be doubting then my friend that demons are real.[/quote]
Self-doubt was just an example. How about an epileptic fit? Or severe paranoia? Schizophrenia? Acute asthma attack? Dementia? Jealousy? Panic attack? They’re all ‘demons’.
[/quote]
No, none of those would not be recognized by an exorcist as a demon, those are medical problems that need to be dealt with by an approved medical doctor, psychologist, or psychiatrist.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Faith won’t cure an amputee, but it just might help a cancer patient. [/quote]
How do you know? That is the dumbest website I have ever seen and people take it seriously. I don’t even thing the guy who created it thinks it’s serious. [/quote]
To my knowledge, there has never been an objectively documented case of an amputee being healed through faith. In my opinion, that’s because limbs don’t spontaneously regenerate, so believers can’t ascribe a divine cause. However, cancer can spontaneously remit, so you see many claims of god healing people with cancer.[/quote]
Your logic is still failing forlife.
[/quote]
Can you explain how what I said isn’t logical?
Are you aware of any objectively documented cases of faith restoring an amputated limb, or any other healing that isn’t subject to spontaneous factors? I’m pretty confident that you could put an amputee in the holiest place on the planet, and have every believer pray and fast for his limb to be restored, only to find his leg is still missing. However, if he had cancer, it is very possible that his cancer would in fact remit.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Faith won’t cure an amputee, but it just might help a cancer patient. [/quote]
How do you know? That is the dumbest website I have ever seen and people take it seriously. I don’t even thing the guy who created it thinks it’s serious. [/quote]
To my knowledge, there has never been an objectively documented case of an amputee being healed through faith. In my opinion, that’s because limbs don’t spontaneously regenerate, so believers can’t ascribe a divine cause. However, cancer can spontaneously remit, so you see many claims of god healing people with cancer.[/quote]
Your logic is still failing forlife.
[/quote]
Can you explain how what I said isn’t logical?
Are you aware of any objectively documented cases of faith restoring an amputated limb, or any other healing that isn’t subject to spontaneous factors? I’m pretty confident that you could put an amputee in the holiest place on the planet, and have every believer pray and fast for his limb to be restored, only to find his leg is still missing. However, if he had cancer, it is very possible that his cancer would in fact remit.[/quote]
I have a belly-ache, therefore “god” does not exist. This is similar to your logic.
You are making prayer superstitious…if I pray then God will do as I want. God is not a butler, you can’t ring a bell and he answers. God answers the prayer of the righteous…I’m going to guess that the righteous aren’t going around asking for amputees legs to reform.
Why is it ok to pray to god go heal cancer, but not to restore an amputated limb? Do you see why that artificial division is suspect, given that one can happen spontaneously and one can’t?
[quote]forlife wrote:
Why is it ok to pray to god go heal cancer, but not to restore an amputated limb? Do you see why that artificial division is suspect, given that one can happen spontaneously and one can’t? [/quote]
There are two problems with it…First, we don’t actually know it has never happened just because CNN didn’t report it. Good news seldom gets press especially tied to religion. Oh they’ll mock the guy who saw Mary in a piece of toast, but if some poor bastard in Africa had a limb restored by miracle,I doubt we’d ever know. Second, even if it never happened it has no bearing on whether or not God exists.
I would think the miraculous restoration of a limb would be HUGE news…I guarantee CNN would report it, if it could be reliably confirmed.
Also, you do read about miraculous cancer remissions, etc. that have occurred as the result of prayer. I bet most of us here even know people that make this claim. But have you ever, even once, heard about a healing like restoration of a limb that couldn’t be explained through spontaneous factors? It just doesn’t happen.
Which begs the question: is this really divine intervention, or is it spontaneous remission interpreted as divine intervention?
Just some of the thoughts that run through my mind when I ask if there really is a god
[quote]forlife wrote:
Why is it ok to pray to god go heal cancer, but not to restore an amputated limb? Do you see why that artificial division is suspect, given that one can happen spontaneously and one can’t? [/quote]
Are you saying something that happened in the past (amputated limb) and something that is happening now (cancer) is the same.
[quote]forlife wrote:
I would think the miraculous restoration of a limb would be HUGE news…I guarantee CNN would report it, if it could be reliably confirmed.
[/quote]
You would be wrong.
Um…yeah, if you don’t understand what I told you above let me know?
[quote]
Which begs the question: is this really divine intervention, or is it spontaneous remission interpreted as divine intervention?
Just some of the thoughts that run through my mind when I ask if there really is a god [/quote]
Did you hear about the Divine Providence with the miners in Chile? No? Oh…big surprise.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Why is it ok to pray to god go heal cancer, but not to restore an amputated limb? Do you see why that artificial division is suspect, given that one can happen spontaneously and one can’t? [/quote]
There are two problems with it…First, we don’t actually know it has never happened just because CNN didn’t report it. Good news seldom gets press especially tied to religion. Oh they’ll mock the guy who saw Mary in a piece of toast, but if some poor bastard in Africa had a limb restored by miracle,I doubt we’d ever know. Second, even if it never happened it has no bearing on whether or not God exists.[/quote]Look at that!!! A post by Pat I totally agree with!!!
[quote]forlife wrote:
Faith won’t cure an amputee, but it just might help a cancer patient. [/quote]
How do you know? That is the dumbest website I have ever seen and people take it seriously. I don’t even thing the guy who created it thinks it’s serious. [/quote]
To my knowledge, there has never been an objectively documented case of an amputee being healed through faith. In my opinion, that’s because limbs don’t spontaneously regenerate, so believers can’t ascribe a divine cause. However, cancer can spontaneously remit, so you see many claims of god healing people with cancer.[/quote]
Wait til you find yourself in a seriously FUBAR situation, where your life is in danger. I don’t mean kinda sorta near death, I am talking about when a medical professional asks you if you want your Last Rites issued. I want to see who you pray to, faith or science.
[/quote]
[quote]forlife wrote:
Faith won’t cure an amputee, but it just might help a cancer patient. [/quote]
How do you know? That is the dumbest website I have ever seen and people take it seriously. I don’t even thing the guy who created it thinks it’s serious. [/quote]
To my knowledge, there has never been an objectively documented case of an amputee being healed through faith. In my opinion, that’s because limbs don’t spontaneously regenerate, so believers can’t ascribe a divine cause. However, cancer can spontaneously remit, so you see many claims of god healing people with cancer.[/quote]
Wait til you find yourself in a seriously FUBAR situation, where your life is in danger. I don’t mean kinda sorta near death, I am talking about when a medical professional asks you if you want your Last Rites issued. I want to see who you pray to, faith or science.
[/quote]
religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel[/quote]
[quote]forlife wrote:
Faith won’t cure an amputee, but it just might help a cancer patient. [/quote]
How do you know? That is the dumbest website I have ever seen and people take it seriously. I don’t even thing the guy who created it thinks it’s serious. [/quote]
To my knowledge, there has never been an objectively documented case of an amputee being healed through faith. In my opinion, that’s because limbs don’t spontaneously regenerate, so believers can’t ascribe a divine cause. However, cancer can spontaneously remit, so you see many claims of god healing people with cancer.[/quote]
Wait til you find yourself in a seriously FUBAR situation, where your life is in danger. I don’t mean kinda sorta near death, I am talking about when a medical professional asks you if you want your Last Rites issued. I want to see who you pray to, faith or science.
[/quote]
religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel[/quote]
I don’t get it?[/quote]
I forget who that quote is ascribed to, but pretty much saying it’s common for people to turn to religion in distress.
Agreed. You’d think those Discovery knuckle-heads would run the press release by the Vatican and get their OK before they put something like that out there…
There is a new show called Miracle Detectives on OWN that looks interesting. The two hosts investigate claims of miraculous intervention. One is a believer who claims to have seen ethereal nuns praying for him during a crisis, and one is a scientist who looks for alternate explanations to the supposed miracles.
Actually, I will say something that may shock some of the Christians on here:
I do not believe “miracles” as in, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, occur anymore and have ceased since the completion of scriptures.
Miracles were first and foremost to validate the scriptures and the people who truly represented God. Once the inspired scriptures was completed and given to us, there was no need for these miracles to occur.
John 10:38 says:
But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
I have not made up my mind if miracles still occur today or not as a gift of the Holy Spirit, so I am not stating this as an absolute. Just that so far, the scriptural evidence shows this.
It is an unessential doctrine so it doesn’t matter is someone believes they still exist or not.
Here is a series of articles on this very subject:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Actually, I will say something that may shock some of the Christians on here:
I do not believe “miracles” as in, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, occur anymore and have ceased since the completion of scriptures.
Miracles were first and foremost to validate the scriptures and the people who truly represented God. Once the inspired scriptures was completed and given to us, there was no need for these miracles to occur.
John 10:38 says:
But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
I have not made up my mind if miracles still occur today or not as a gift of the Holy Spirit, so I am not stating this as an absolute. Just that so far, the scriptural evidence shows this.
It is an unessential doctrine so it doesn’t matter is someone believes they still exist or not.
Here is a series of articles on this very subject:
Actually it does matter, and how do you explain St. Padre Pio who had the stigmata for just over 50 years. For 50 years he had open wounds in his hands and feet all the way through both so you could see through them.
