Disciplining an 11 Month Old ?

It all depends on why your child is doing this. If out of “spite” then you need to first correct the situation that is causing those feelings. If it’s a game or to get your attention, then play along (to a point) by asking them to undo what they just did, helping them along the way. You know, play Clean Up.

The best thing that worked for my kids was just to put everything of value up and out of the way. Their toy boxes always got dumped out but cleaning up after your young children – with them helping as much as possible – is part of parenting.

Remember, they’re not rocket scientists so expect a long, drawn-out process of them learning what to do and what not to do. Hell, they only came out of their mother’s belly a short while ago. Give them a chance to learn – actually, lot’s of them.

At 11 months, he’s way to young to understand “forbidden” stuff.

I’d suggest “child proofing” the house instead. Don’t put books in places he can reach, otherwise, one day he’ll also discover the fun of pulling all the pages out. When toddlers start to, er, toddle I guess, it’s time to put yourself in their place and go around every room of the house and remove/rearrange stuff so that he can’t hurt himself nor damage fragile stuff.

You’ll have a lot more success adapting the house to him, rather than to try it the other way around.

Before they’re 2 years old, disciplining them doesn’t really accomplish much. They don’t really associate being in “time out” (or worse, being hit) with something they just did.

[quote]bboybean wrote:
Question for parents only, does a 11mth old understand punishment? My little boy has begun a ?bratty? phase. He just does little stuff that little boys do (ie. pulling down books / smacking the t.v ect. ) and I have been giving him little pats on the hand and putting him in the ?time out corner?. The problem is he just goes back to doing what I told him not to. This is my first one so im not even sure if he is understanding that I am telling him no.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Bean
[/quote]

Don’t discipline a baby. Pick him up, sing to him, maybe play peek-a-boo. I have 3 kids and you should only be VERY positive with young children. Trust me on this. My kids are 15, 10, 5 and they are nice, kind, happy kids. The two oldest make straight As, are into scouting, church activities, and sports. The 5 year old (adopted from China) is a human dynamo and the happiest kindest liitle girl I could imagine.

Remember, always positive and NO YELLING.

[quote]pookie wrote:
At 11 months, he’s way to young to understand “forbidden” stuff.

I’d suggest “child proofing” the house instead. Don’t put books in places he can reach, otherwise, one day he’ll also discover the fun of pulling all the pages out. When toddlers start to, er, toddle I guess, it’s time to put yourself in their place and go around every room of the house and remove/rearrange stuff so that he can’t hurt himself nor damage fragile stuff.

You’ll have a lot more success adapting the house to him, rather than to try it the other way around.

Before they’re 2 years old, disciplining them doesn’t really accomplish much. They don’t really associate being in “time out” (or worse, being hit) with something they just did.
[/quote]

Great post. What a bunch of fucking nut jobs on fucking post. It makes my stomach turn to think of somebody slapping the hands of an 11 month old over what was described.

You kid is fucking 11 months old. They are just beginning to explore their environment and check stuff out. That’s why they are called toddlers.

Get off your lazy fucking ass and baby proof your house. Buy a gate or two to keep them within the baby proofed areas and let them go to town.

The kid should be able to go anywhere within your line of site and touch basically anything without repercussion.

If you don’t like him hitting your precious TV, how about turning the fucking thing off and paying attention to the kid?

I think a little physical affirmation helps to a point but slapping or spanking in anger is where the problem is. I have a two year old daughter that can be quit trying, but I give myself a time out prior to doing anything harsh as I have a short temper (job related).I agree that at that age they are just starting to figure out what’s going on, no real correlation can be made between action and reaction. I would keep running though the NO cycle & see what develops. As wrong as it sounds, at that age its similar to training a puppy, patience is a virtue. Just my $0.02.

[quote]The Savage wrote:
ThatGirl77 wrote:
Oh! another one I’m discovering is the anticipation!!! We’re in the car, kids act up, they’re warned repeatedly, then told they’ll be spanked. The entire 10 min drive home they’re both panicky, “Are you gonna spank us? Are we gonna get spanked?”

Is it wrong to derive a little bit of devious pleasure from that? lol

I don’t find this humurous at all. Think about it, you failed in your discipline. Did you spank them? NO, they will only remember that they got away from a close one. So guess what? Your threats will become empty. They’ll repeat and think that you’re not serious, only to follow through the second time and then they’ll be confused because you didn’t follow through the first time (Think at their level of understanding). Children should not fear you, they should respect you as when they are out with other children and their friends piss them off and they hit them is that OK? Well, that is what you taught them.

This is the time for the 123 rule, You ask them in a calm voice to be quiet or there will be consequences (You’ll be in trouble) Name the consequnce not the punishment, such as you will not take them out again to where ever you were to begin with… or they will go to bed earlier if they don’t behave. If they continue, start counting with a 2 second pause in between counts and look them in the eyes and be serious. You should also pull over the car during this exchange. The worst thing is to keep driving and they see you stressed. If you count 3, then follow up and reinforce the consequence, the next time you count they’ll stop after 2 and eventually after 1. It works.[/quote]

You’re a dummy.

We DO use the 123 rule, they were warned, and YES, they DID get their spankings. 1 wack each for being disobedient. Get the whole story before you shoot your mouth off.

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Or better yet, if your child is being bad, why not give it something stimulating and rewarding to do instead? It works for children with autism, it will definately work for a child with no behavioural disorders.[/quote]

There’s a little more to autism than that, but this is a good point. Redirection is very important for kids, but there does come a time when the redirection isn’t enough and they need to learn that -behavior is unacceptable and since they KEEP doing it, they will be put in time out or spanked or whatever.

[quote]Canadianrigpig wrote:
I think a little physical affirmation helps to a point but slapping or spanking in anger is where the problem is. I have a two year old daughter that can be quit trying, but I give myself a time out prior to doing anything harsh as I have a short temper (job related).I agree that at that age they are just starting to figure out what’s going on, no real correlation can be made between action and reaction. I would keep running though the NO cycle & see what develops. As wrong as it sounds, at that age its similar to training a puppy, patience is a virtue. Just my $0.02.[/quote]

Good point about the physical affirmation/punishment not being about releasing your own frustrations or anger.

If anyone feels the need to vent their frustrations, they should do so elsewhere, and not through the slaps or spanks.

Having said that, using the slap on the hand has worked great with my daughter, along with other forms of discipline which includes standing against the wall for a specific period of time and making sure she knew the reason for the punishment, having her apologize, and most importantly, giving as much positive reinforcement as possible when she corrects her mistakes, or any time she shows she’s making an effort to do something responsible.

She is a very well behaved, very loved little girl who doesn’t and won’t have any negative psychological problems from any of the discipline my wife and I have used for her.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant, or how quick some people can be to jump to conclusions about others. I guess some people need drama in their lives so they try to create it.

[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Canadianrigpig wrote:
I think a little physical affirmation helps to a point but slapping or spanking in anger is where the problem is. I have a two year old daughter that can be quit trying, but I give myself a time out prior to doing anything harsh as I have a short temper (job related).I agree that at that age they are just starting to figure out what’s going on, no real correlation can be made between action and reaction. I would keep running though the NO cycle & see what develops. As wrong as it sounds, at that age its similar to training a puppy, patience is a virtue. Just my $0.02.

Good point about the physical affirmation/punishment not being about releasing your own frustrations or anger.

If anyone feels the need to vent their frustrations, they should do so elsewhere, and not through the slaps or spanks.

Having said that, using the slap on the hand has worked great with my daughter, along with other forms of discipline which includes standing against the wall for a specific period of time and making sure she knew the reason for the punishment, having her apologize, and most importantly, giving as much positive reinforcement as possible when she corrects her mistakes, or any time she shows she’s making an effort to do something responsible.

She is a very well behaved, very loved little girl who doesn’t and won’t have any negative psychological problems from any of the discipline my wife and I have used for her.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant, or how quick some people can be to jump to conclusions about others. I guess some people need drama in their lives so they try to create it.[/quote]

Great post. I agree with every word.

It’s an 11-month old. Pick him up and put him somewhere else with something shiny / interesting. He’ll forget all about what it was he was messing with. For a bit.

Just don’t expect that “disciplining” an 11-month old will actually result in any learned lesson for the child. Or that you won’t have to repeat your actions.

And always keep that in mind… he’s 11-MONTHS OLD.

Just get yourself one of those shock collars they sell for hunting dogs. ZZZZAAAAPP!

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
If you don’t like him hitting your precious TV, how about turning the fucking thing off and paying attention to the kid?
[/quote]

Yeah, I don’t have children so I’m not qualified to respond, but I will…

It sounds like if you were interacting with your child, instead of sitting on the couch, your child would be busy doing something that doesn’t cause you distress. Maybe the child doesn’t like the television because it gets all the attention?

Like others said, childproof your house, and in ten or fifteen years, you can stop letting the kid destroy the place. He’s too young to learn or understand the value of things. It’s curiousity, exploring, boredom and attention.

You went and decided to have children, so adjust yourself and your lifestyle in response to the commitment you have made… record the stuff you want to watch and do it while junior is sleeping.

[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
The Savage wrote:
ThatGirl77 wrote:
Oh! another one I’m discovering is the anticipation!!! We’re in the car, kids act up, they’re warned repeatedly, then told they’ll be spanked. The entire 10 min drive home they’re both panicky, “Are you gonna spank us? Are we gonna get spanked?”

Is it wrong to derive a little bit of devious pleasure from that? lol

I don’t find this humurous at all. Think about it, you failed in your discipline. Did you spank them? NO, they will only remember that they got away from a close one. So guess what? Your threats will become empty. They’ll repeat and think that you’re not serious, only to follow through the second time and then they’ll be confused because you didn’t follow through the first time (Think at their level of understanding). Children should not fear you, they should respect you as when they are out with other children and their friends piss them off and they hit them is that OK? Well, that is what you taught them.

This is the time for the 123 rule, You ask them in a calm voice to be quiet or there will be consequences (You’ll be in trouble) Name the consequnce not the punishment, such as you will not take them out again to where ever you were to begin with… or they will go to bed earlier if they don’t behave. If they continue, start counting with a 2 second pause in between counts and look them in the eyes and be serious. You should also pull over the car during this exchange. The worst thing is to keep driving and they see you stressed. If you count 3, then follow up and reinforce the consequence, the next time you count they’ll stop after 2 and eventually after 1. It works.

You’re a dummy.

We DO use the 123 rule, they were warned, and YES, they DID get their spankings. 1 wack each for being disobedient. Get the whole story before you shoot your mouth off.

[/quote]

If you think I personally attacked you, then I’m sorry (Don’t hit me - jk). I think you were being polite in calling me a dummy, it’s OK I’ve been called worse :slight_smile: You did not give the full story t’ll now. I never said you were a bad parent, I’m just saying there are alternatives.

Kids are very resilient and after awhile the spankings are not going to work, think about how often you spank and the degree of force used. Again I’m not implying you are going overboard, I don’t know it’s up to you to decide that.

I will say IMO, that taking away a privelege has more control over a child because they need to earn it back.

[quote]The Savage wrote:
If you think I personally attacked you, then I’m sorry (Don’t hit me - jk). I think you were being polite in calling me a dummy, it’s OK I’ve been called worse :slight_smile: You did not give the full story t’ll now. I never said you were a bad parent, I’m just saying there are alternatives.
[/quote]

Well, it certainly seemed that you were attacking me personally since you quoted me and then went off on other ways to discipline.

I didn’t think the entire story was relevant - seasoned parents would understand where I was coming from, I thought.

Spankings don’t work on a 13 yr old, 15 yr old, 18 yr old. I know, because I’ve bene that kid that got spanked at those ages. I come form an abusive home, which is why I do things diff w/ my kids. My dad’s philosophy is hit first don’t ask questions later and if we try and explain the situation, hit again. We learned to shut up and take it and now none of us live near him. Leaving bruises on your kid is absolutely unacceptable and is not something I will ever do to mine. I don’t even come close. (That’s just my rant and not being pissy at you.)

To a degree, yes. But it’s not the only or best way for all kids. I think discipline and punishment varies greatly. Yes, we do the 123 rule, yes we do time out, yes we take priveleges, and then yes, finally we spank.

Kids are great imitators, too, so if mo mand dad are good examples, then it will go well for the kids, too. Not to say everyone who is wonderful and perfect will have equally wonderful perfect children, but they’ll have good examples to learn from. Of course, I had bad examples and learned from that what not to do.

I am sorry about your childhood experience and recognize and admire your desire to do things differently.

The point you seem to be missing is that this is an 11 month old.

I have kids. My youngest son crawled at 4.5 months and walked at 8 months. He was a freaking nightmare.

He was basically a baby brain in a toddlers body. He could walk under the kitchen table without hitting his head. That’s how little he was.

He was into everything. We had to take the kitchen chairs out and put them in the dining room b/c he would slide them over to the counters to climb up on them to explore the cupboards. We would take him down, put the chair back and like a wind up doll his little feet would start moving before he hit the ground and he would be walking back over to get the chair and push it back over to the cupboard. I can even recall eating meals for better than a week standing around the center island because we got tired of moving the chairs back in and out.

We had to baby proof the hell out of the house and literally had to step over gates to get anywhere until he learned to climb them successfully.

We basically lived in a bare house for about a year until he got over his exploratory phase and took direction a little better.

In other words, we made the environment as safe as we could for him and turned him loose. The only time we intervened was if he was in moderate to serious physical danger.

To stifle a child like that and actually discourage exploration through physical punishment at that age is inexcusable and indicates a complete lack of understanding where the child is at developmentally at that age.

What the OP should do, instead of posting a parenting question on T-Nation (huh?!?) is find out what kind of community ed is avaible in their area.

Not only is it a great way to learn about parenting, but they will meet other parents in the community and will develop friendships that will follow them through school. My wife still has a monthly girls night out with her Mom’s group from years ago.

Additionally, it can really help with sanity b/c you develop a peer group you may not have otherwise had which affords a lot of comfort.

[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
The Savage wrote:
If you think I personally attacked you, then I’m sorry (Don’t hit me - jk). I think you were being polite in calling me a dummy, it’s OK I’ve been called worse :slight_smile: You did not give the full story t’ll now. I never said you were a bad parent, I’m just saying there are alternatives.

Well, it certainly seemed that you were attacking me personally since you quoted me and then went off on other ways to discipline.

I didn’t think the entire story was relevant - seasoned parents would understand where I was coming from, I thought.

Kids are very resilient and after awhile the spankings are not going to work, think about how often you spank and the degree of force used. Again I’m not implying you are going overboard, I don’t know it’s up to you to decide that.

Spankings don’t work on a 13 yr old, 15 yr old, 18 yr old. I know, because I’ve bene that kid that got spanked at those ages. I come form an abusive home, which is why I do things diff w/ my kids. My dad’s philosophy is hit first don’t ask questions later and if we try and explain the situation, hit again. We learned to shut up and take it and now none of us live near him. Leaving bruises on your kid is absolutely unacceptable and is not something I will ever do to mine. I don’t even come close. (That’s just my rant and not being pissy at you.)

I will say IMO, that taking away a privelege has more control over a child because they need to earn it back.

To a degree, yes. But it’s not the only or best way for all kids. I think discipline and punishment varies greatly. Yes, we do the 123 rule, yes we do time out, yes we take priveleges, and then yes, finally we spank.

Kids are great imitators, too, so if mo mand dad are good examples, then it will go well for the kids, too. Not to say everyone who is wonderful and perfect will have equally wonderful perfect children, but they’ll have good examples to learn from. Of course, I had bad examples and learned from that what not to do.

[/quote]

lol nice answer, there, friendly.

[quote]bboybean wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the child when it is good, and pubishing it when it is bad. Your attention is reinforcing, so it will keep being bad. What would happen if you ignored your child when it is bad, and gave it attention when it is being good?

I would love to hear where you got this from. If a child is doing somthing dangerous would you ignore it ?
[/quote]

Why is the child doing something dangerous? If you punish it, and walk away, will it stop doing dangerous things? Can it understand why what it was doing was dangerous, so it can generalize it to other similar situations? No? Well, how about you give it something safe AND interesting to do, instead?

Hah you’re right, I’m an idiot! Seriously now, I actually understand learning and behaviour pretty well. It’s not a matter of what’s taught in books, it’s a matter of what is published in journals. I’ve also had the opportunity to do experiments in operant conditioning myself, and since my fiancee has done ABA therapy (applied bahviour analysis), I’ve had a chance to see the direct effects of doing this type of thing on the effect of a 3 year old.

Theoty can’t be proven, only supported or refuted. Since what I describe is what is taught to people trying to shape children’s behaviour as a standard, yes, it has received a lot of support in rodent operant conditioning experiments, in experiments with children, and in field studies with children.

When I have children, how much advice will I take from non-parents? Exactly as much as they provide that is useful, practical, and factual. I gave you some basics about operant conditioning, and some practical ways to implement them. Take it or leave, but there’s no need to be rude about it, you know?

[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
Or better yet, if your child is being bad, why not give it something stimulating and rewarding to do instead? It works for children with autism, it will definately work for a child with no behavioural disorders.

There’s a little more to autism than that, but this is a good point. Redirection is very important for kids, but there does come a time when the redirection isn’t enough and they need to learn that -behavior is unacceptable and since they KEEP doing it, they will be put in time out or spanked or whatever.[/quote]

Oh, I know there’s more to autism than that, it was just an example. But I totally agree with you, and I personally think that punishment is a useful discipline tool.

However, I very strongly feel that a child is better off not being punished ever than being punished by someone that doesn’t know what they are doing. And the vast majority of the time, the average person can accomplish much more through positive reinforcement than through punishment.

[quote]The Savage wrote:
Kids are very resilient and after awhile the spankings are not going to work, think about how often you spank and the degree of force used. Again I’m not implying you are going overboard, I don’t know it’s up to you to decide that.

[/quote]

This is why you have to hit them a little harder each time.

[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
Spankings don’t work on a 13 yr old, 15 yr old, 18 yr old. I know, because I’ve bene that kid that got spanked at those ages. I come form an abusive home, which is why I do things diff w/ my kids. My dad’s philosophy is hit first don’t ask questions later and if we try and explain the situation, hit again. We learned to shut up and take it and now none of us live near him. Leaving bruises on your kid is absolutely unacceptable and is not something I will ever do to mine. I don’t even come close. (That’s just my rant and not being pissy at you.)
[/quote]

You’re right, it came off that way and it was not my intent. Seems we had the same father type though and that is why growing up I thought, there must be a better way…

I have since resolved this with my father and he admitted to the abuse, it was tough for me back then, I was bullied as a little squirt and then to come home sometimes to a father that “shot first…”

It was only bad when he drank, Jekyll and Hide kind of thing. Look I think parenting is one of the hardest things to do in the world, we will never be perfect parents in anyone’s eyes and I get that. I get you as well and at least you see where I’m coming from. That’s all, I’m not here to judge, my kids could still turn out to be public menaces :slight_smile:

I have 3 kids and have been teaching teenagers for 25 years.

Use negative reinforcement only as a last resort. You guys would be surprised how well teens remember when ‘Dad went off’ or ‘Mom went nuts!’.

I know this sounds like 60’s psychobabble, but punishment ALWAYS comes back to haunt you. If you use it repeatedly, you will create a child who lives in fear and who responds only to that and terror. Is that what you want in your children?

Its better to have children who respond to reason than to threats.

If you must, take away a favorite toy or a video game. And remember to PRAISE at every opportunity. You will like the results.

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