Question for parents only, does a 11mth old understand punishment? My little boy has begun a ?bratty? phase. He just does little stuff that little boys do (ie. pulling down books / smacking the t.v ect. ) and I have been giving him little pats on the hand and putting him in the ?time out corner?. The problem is he just goes back to doing what I told him not to. This is my first one so im not even sure if he is understanding that I am telling him no.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Bean
No to time outs. There is no association possible.
The tone of your voice should be enough at that age.
Also, and this is a tough one–ignore it. What does he get when he does this? Your attention. A response. Let it lie there. Obviously remove anything of value. But simply lack of acknowlegment will probably do the trick.
The other thing to do is immediately turn their attention elsewhere. Start talking about a toy and get that in their hand.
Don’t fret. He’s not old enough to be bratty. He’s just exploring–no intent at all.
I have a 6 year old. You can see a partial pic in my profile. My wife had me black out his face.
11 months is too young for time out. The child will understand “NO.” You have to be ascertive and make it clear they cant do that or there will be consequences. I am a rather imposing male and am able to make it obvious I will not tolerate something by my tone and non-verbal language, so this stuff worked with me.
One pitfall I had was that my son was just so darn cute and I loved him so much it was hard to be mean/assertive to him.
hope that helps.
[quote]bboybean wrote:
My little boy has begun a “bratty” phase. He just does little stuff that little boys do (ie. smacking the t.v)[/quote]
Is he trying to get your attention away from the TV?
My mental image of this:
You’re watching tv, he smacks the tv. You smack his hand and put him the corner. Then you go back to the couch. He comes back and smacks the tv. Then you smack his hand, put him back in the corner, and put yourself back in the couch… 
jk!
He probably is trying to get your attention though, and so your present corrective action could actually be rewarding the undesired behavior.
The suggestion that another poster gave, to get him interested in another activity, seems to me the best option. He has to be doing something, after all, just like any other living being.
The redirection will work best if you give him the choice of several other objects to play with, than if you only gave him one that he might not be so into at that point in time. He might also feel, “This is what I want to do”, lessening any imposition on your part.
Good luck.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
I have a 6 year old. You can see a partial pic in my profile. My wife had me black out his face.
11 months is too young for time out. The child will understand “NO.” You have to be ascertive and make it clear they cant do that or there will be consequences. I am a rather imposing male and am able to make it obvious I will not tolerate something by my tone and non-verbal language, so this stuff worked with me.
One pitfall I had was that my son was just so darn cute and I loved him so much it was hard to be mean/assertive to him.
hope that helps. [/quote]
OMG i know what you mean, I almost crumble when his little face goes all squishy and he starts to cry. I thought I was being pretty stern when I told him no but Ill try a little harder.
I hate being a meanie but I dont want him being one of those wild kids. Im sure he’s too young to really worry about this but Its my first and Im learning.
Thanks for the help
Bean
They’re all too darn cute, aren’t they? 
The sooner you start a CONSISTENT discipline, the better.
Don’t ignore it - it won’t go away. He’ll learn that pulling books down is acceptable and ok and dad and mom won’t care.
Keep up w/ telling him no when something is not acceptable. Honestly, he may be too young for time out right now, but if you start NOW, he’ll know in the future.
My bro spanks and puts his kids in time out until they stop crying. That’s it. They’re 18 mos and 3 yrs old.
My kids get spanked and time outs. They’re 5 and 6 and they HATE it, but it works. They can leave time out when they’re calm and can talk to me nicely.
FTR, my kids & my brother’s kids aren’t beaten. 1 wack on the rear end does it.
[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
They’re all too darn cute, aren’t they?
The sooner you start a CONSISTENT discipline, the better.
Don’t ignore it - it won’t go away. He’ll learn that pulling books down is acceptable and ok and dad and mom won’t care.
Keep up w/ telling him no when something is not acceptable. Honestly, he may be too young for time out right now, but if you start NOW, he’ll know in the future.
My bro spanks and puts his kids in time out until they stop crying. That’s it. They’re 18 mos and 3 yrs old.
My kids get spanked and time outs. They’re 5 and 6 and they HATE it, but it works. They can leave time out when they’re calm and can talk to me nicely.
FTR, my kids & my brother’s kids aren’t beaten. 1 wack on the rear end does it.[/quote]
Agreed. Good post.
Sometimes time out alone does not work, you have to be willing to spank their little buts and tell them no. Usually a little pat on the bottom and telling them no is all that is needed to set them into a flurry of tears. Society leads you to belive any type of contact is child abuse(not true), but there is a fine line between the two.
Also correct on nipping this behavior in the bud because it will continue, and believe me it gets worse.
It will develop into tears when they dont get the toy, or candy they want. And the cuteness/love makes it hard to say no and that you will not tolerate that behavior. Man they can really be persistent when they want something.
Don’t ever let them see that their facial expressions have an effect on you when they’re being bad and hold your ground.
I also disagree with time-outs not working for 11 month olds.
I read about the timing of the time-outs should be based on their age. 1 minute per year old they are, which was based on their attention span.
I’m also a firm believer in using both positive reinforcement when they’re good, along with punishment when they’re bad. Showing tons of love when they’re not bad, but not backing down and getting the point across sternly when they are bad.
I’ve been using a slap on the back of my daughter’s hand, and that’s worked great. I know there are a lot of people with strong feelings against any type of physical punishment, but I believe that spanking and/or slapping the hand works.
I’ve gotten to the point to where I just have to say “give me your hand”, and I can ask her what she did wrong and if she’ll do it again, and I don’t need to slap her hand anymore.
I did give in once when she held her hand out though, and I just told her to slap it herself. She did, and my wife was holding back her laugh, and made me laugh.
Alot of great reponses thank, He will do it even if the t.v is off (reflection i think) , but his new funness is turning it on and off.
I was spanked and I think it did a world of good for me , I also hated my dad for being the enforcer until I was old enought to understand it. I have read like 5 books and numerous articals on the matter but everything is contradicting everything else.
I feel so bad about making him cry (really really bad) but I want him to be a good boy later.
If anything works for me in the near future ill let you guys know.
Thanks again for your help guys
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Don’t ever let them see that their facial expressions have an effect on you when they’re being bad and hold your ground.
[/quote]
OMG, that is so true. Ther ehave been MANY times that whatever they did was just FUNNY and I have to walk away and let my husband deal with it otherwise I’ll just laugh.
Oh! another one I’m discovering is the anticipation!!! We’re in the car, kids act up, they’re warned repeatedly, then told they’ll be spanked. The entire 10 min drive home they’re both panicky, “Are you gonna spank us? Are we gonna get spanked?”
Is it wrong to derive a little bit of devious pleasure from that? lol
You said “parents only”, but I’m going to give you some advice anyway. DO NOT give him little pats on the hand. If you are going to use physical punishment, you have to actually cause some pain, or it’s useless. What’s more, it leads to a cycle of behaviour that often ends in physical abuse.
Have you ever seen a parent being far too rough with a child? The other day, I was in the bakery, and there was a woman there with a small child. He kept touching things, asking if he could eat things, etc. The woman was getting mad, he wasn’t listening, she tried being firmer, and so on.
Long story short, he grabbed something he shouldn’t have, she angrily pulled him away, and damn-near dislocated his shoulder. Is she a terrible parent? Not quite…
If a rat is punished for an action with a strong electric shock, it extinguishes that behaviour almost instantly. If another rat is punished with a weak electric shock, nothing happens. You increase the strength of the shock, nothing happens. You increase the strength again, nothing happens.
Pretty soon, you are giving the rat a much, much stronger shock than the rat who got the strong shock to begin with, but the behaviour that is being punished just won’t stop. It can get to the point where the rat is actually suffering physical harm, but it won’t stop doing whatever it was doing. This has been shown in other mammals as well, and the conclusion is pretty clear: punishment works, but only if you do it right.
If you make a mistake, and there are many mistakes you could make (eg., providing a discriminant stimulus: “I only get punished if daddy is home”), it will not work.
I’m not suggesting you beat your child in any way. In fact, I would suggest you stay away from positive punishment (eg, hitting, yelling, etc) as much as possible. At the same time, negative punishment (time-outs, “go to your room”, etc) are not likely to be effective with an 11 month old.
Use positive reinforcers as much as possible. You seem to be ignoring the child when it is good, and pubishing it when it is bad. Your attention is reinforcing, so it will keep being bad. What would happen if you ignored your child when it is bad, and gave it attention when it is being good?
Or better yet, if your child is being bad, why not give it something stimulating and rewarding to do instead? It works for children with autism, it will definately work for a child with no behavioural disorders.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
You seem to be ignoring the child when it is good, and pubishing it when it is bad. Your attention is reinforcing, so it will keep being bad. What would happen if you ignored your child when it is bad, and gave it attention when it is being good?
[/quote]
I would love to hear where you got this from. If a child is doing somthing dangerous would you ignore it ?
As smart as im sure you think you are I put “parents only” beacuse as Im sure every parent can back me in saying that real world experiances can be different than whats tought in books.
How can you prove your theorys ? with rats? Have a child yourself and you will see how much advice from non-parents you will take.
I should add though that I do understand that without pain slapping the hand could be useless.
As well that he is a very good little boy its just these specific issues that Im trying to get some advice on . I hope I didnt come off sounding angry or anything but the comment about me ignoring him when he’s good bugged me.
Yes, I agree that if you are going to slap the hand, it should hurt.
I had to remind my wife about this as she gave a tiny little half-assed slap.
Too young for a time out, unless you need one yourself to calm down.
Anything more than a small slap on the back of the hand and a firm NO is too much.
They keep you on your toes at this age.
No matter how much time you spend with them they need more.
I learned you cannot sit and read or watch TV with the little ones around.
If you need to do this go in another room.
The funny thing is you can exercise, do housework, cook, build something and they are fine. When they see you sitting apparantly doing nothing is when they misbehave.
I have some experience, my kids are 15 and 16 years old now. Never slapped them, repeat NEVER SLAPPED them. Fuck! your kid is 11 months old, they need reinforcement, not punishment. You’ll have to get off your lazy ass and show them not to take the book down, over and over and over again. They pull it off to and you tell them NO in an affirmative way, no yelling. Do this 3 times, then move the book out of their reach. Then give them a book they can browse through, a child’s book that is appropriate for their age and put it in reach for him, he pulls it off so be it, when he is done with it put it back as it is too early to try to teach them to clean up after themselves, that should come by year 2.
He hits the TV, again affirmative NO. IF the TV is off, perhaps he wants to watch a show? If it is on, tell him NO and have him sit with you while you watch TV, if he squirms then bring him to where you should have a toy box and let him have at it.
Spanking IMO is for those with no patience, if you spank an 11 month old for grabbing a book then don’t be surprised when they don’t want to go to the library.
I agree with most of what has already been posted - he’s too young for a timeout, but a firm “no”, removing him from the situation and possible slap on the hand should work. One big part of that should be to keep your face and reactions as neutral as possible while doing this, no intense reaction or emotion. Also, patience is key (and really hard sometimes!) since you will have to do this repeatedly until it sinks in.
Take some deep breaths - good luck!
[quote]ThatGirl77 wrote:
Oh! another one I’m discovering is the anticipation!!! We’re in the car, kids act up, they’re warned repeatedly, then told they’ll be spanked. The entire 10 min drive home they’re both panicky, “Are you gonna spank us? Are we gonna get spanked?”
Is it wrong to derive a little bit of devious pleasure from that? lol[/quote]
I don’t find this humurous at all. Think about it, you failed in your discipline. Did you spank them? NO, they will only remember that they got away from a close one. So guess what? Your threats will become empty. They’ll repeat and think that you’re not serious, only to follow through the second time and then they’ll be confused because you didn’t follow through the first time (Think at their level of understanding). Children should not fear you, they should respect you as when they are out with other children and their friends piss them off and they hit them is that OK? Well, that is what you taught them.
This is the time for the 123 rule, You ask them in a calm voice to be quiet or there will be consequences (You’ll be in trouble) Name the consequnce not the punishment, such as you will not take them out again to where ever you were to begin with… or they will go to bed earlier if they don’t behave. If they continue, start counting with a 2 second pause in between counts and look them in the eyes and be serious. You should also pull over the car during this exchange. The worst thing is to keep driving and they see you stressed. If you count 3, then follow up and reinforce the consequence, the next time you count they’ll stop after 2 and eventually after 1. It works.