T Nation

Disaster 8 Weeks Into Cycle. Help?

@jacko4575
Tamoxifen shouldn’t tank your estrogen. The quicker it gets your T up the faster your E levels will rise.

Tamoxifen particularly targets E2 receptors in breast tissue. It’s a breast cancer drug. It will not crush your E2, at least not outside of your boobs. Your estrogen should elevate, at least at pace with your test elevating.

I am on TRT, so no PCT for me. As @dextermorgan said, getting your test up will improve E2.

I would think having low E2 going into PCT might be an advantage for a HPTA restart? E2 is an input the HPTA feedback loop, and having it low should in theory make your body want to produce more test to get more E2.

That’s makes sense. Thanks for advice guys much appreciated. I’m just glad I did things properly and got regular bloods or would been injecting god knows what for next 8 weeks. At least i spotted it before to late. Shame tho as I was looking forward to the full cycle and the gains I was starting to get around week 6 were incredible. I guess I can call it a trial cycle ready for my next one and believe me there will be a next one Haha.

You need to look at the drug’s half-life. Sustanon has a decanoate ester in it, which is about a 15 day half-life. It takes 5 half-life cycles for a drug to clear the body. That actually works out to about 75 days to clear the body. You don’t want to begin PCT before the drugs clears as even being in normal test level range would make the PCT drug ineffective as the HPTA is still suppressed. You could begin PCT early, but it would not start working until the drug (Sustanon) clears the body. So, you would put yourself at risk of completing PCT too early as you would stop the PCT before the full 4 weeks.

You are a liar and a fool, you know that? I never said there wasn’t a difference between 250mg and 500mg Test. per week and you know it. Most people are running bunk Nolva they get online so they take these high doses and probably aren’t getting any real drug or seriously underdosed drug. Prescription Nolva would never need to go above 10mg daily.

I think where we disagree is in the amount of exogenous test that needs to be eliminated before PCT, right?

I say you should shoot to be below your normal levels before starting. You seem to advocate for the exogenous test to be almost completely gone, right?

Why do you think it needs to be nearly completely gone vs below natural levels?

Edit: I will say that I once believed that almost any amount of exogenous test would shut a man down. Evidence changed my mind on that belief.

If this is the case, you should say that if you are getting your Nolva online to run it at 40, 40, 40, 40 (adjusted by how much you think it is underdosed), since you think “most” of it is underdosed. It is fine to say that you believe that if it is prescription Nolva that you should not need as much.

You’re right. You said there’s no difference between 300 & 500mg (not 250mg).

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How do you know most people buy fake or underdosed Tamoxifen? You can buy foreign Pharma grade Tamoxifen for cheap on one of the most used websites for people buying Tamoxifen. I Googled for 10 mins to find it and bought 400 20mg Cytotam brand Tamoxifen. It’s legit Tamoxifen. I gave it to a friend that previously used US brand pharma grade for PCT and he had blood work done to make sure it was legit. Was just as effective mg to mg.

Suppression versus shutdown. Some don’t know the difference.

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Six half lives would be what is required if you wished to wait for absolutely 100% of the drug to clear… I personally think 3-4 half lives would be adequate, but I’m no medical professional. Obviously I have no data to back this, with exogenous test in his system his HPTA is still being suppressed. Can you facilitate the production of some semblance of you’re Natty test when a very large portion of the drug is out of you’re system, or does it have to be absolutely 100% out? I’d imagine starting PCT when you’re TT drops to about 100ng/dl would perhaps facilitate a faster recovery compared to starting when you bottom out at literally castrate level

I generally think waiting two weeks after test C or E is not enough, just based on what levels you would have (I think 3 is a pretty good recommendation). I don’t have evidence other than it makes intuitive sense to try to be lower than your natural levels.

I was looking for @TRT_Phoenix to supply evidence that says it is best to let the test completely (or close to completely) clear out before PCT, vs just low level.

I’m with you on this one. As soon as Test is low enough, it doesn’t matter if it’s exogenous.

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I believe this is the rationale regarding tapering corticosteroids in the medical community. (Aside from the whole host of negative effects sudden discontinuation has pertaining to lack of cortisol)