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Disaster 8 Weeks Into Cycle. Help?

Hi all,

Having a nightmare here.

So long story short planned to go on 16 week cycle. Test 500mg per week.

My supplier got me sust rather then test e but that wasn’t issue per say.

I went on and things were great, few issues on the way with nipples and gyno lumps but all resolved with nolva no need for adex.

So issues was after 8 weeks I broke full bottle of gear… so needed more. My supplier now couldn’t get sust again and said be test e. So thought that was what originaly wanted they should be ok to switch between so went ahead.

The problem is as follows

Pre cycle labs
Test 14.4nmol range 8-29
Estrogen 51.9pmol range 41-159

8 weeks in labs
Test 127nmol
Estrogen 212pmol

11 weeks In (3 weeks on new gear)
Test 20nmol
Estrogen 18.4pmol

So clearly the new gear is bunk and also tanked my estrogen too. I’m panicking as I have now essentially been of cycle unknowingly for 3 weeks and not followed a PCT

What should I do now guys please help. My first cycle has been a complete fail.

Your test level is about where it was when you started. Your new test probably has close to 0 actual test in it (you are likely at your level based off of the sust you were pinning).

If you are now on week 12, I would say just to PCT now.

I don’t think it’s a complete fail. You got 8 weeks of elevated levels (and I’m assuming good workouts), so stopping the bunk gear and doing a PCT isn’t a terrible idea

I been using the bunk gear for 3 weeks now so that means pct is 1 week late. Also should my estrogen be so low considering I haven’t been on any AI or anything?

Actually, the exogenous test hasn’t fully cleared your body. Sustanon has different esters and the longer ones make it stick around for up to 8 weeks after the last pin.
EDITED: I looked up Sustanon and didn’t realize it included a Decanoate ester. You can begin PCT in about 4 weeks from now.

Tamoxifen 10mg EOD x 4 weeks is what I recommend. I prefer Toremifene 15mg E4D x 4 weeks, but it is hard for most people to get. Avoid Clomid.

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A week late starting PCT isn’t a huge deal, the Sust you were taking is just finally clearing out; prolly perfect time to start PCT, actually.

As far as low e2, I think it’s just low cos you stopped taking real test and your body hasn’t started making anymore yet

So you think run standard 40/40/20/20 nolva for pct or that be overkill on 8 week cycle

I was thinking on pct from today on nolva. Poss 40/40/20/20

Nolva at 10mg daily x4 weeks is more than enough. Too much will convert to Norendoxifen which is an aromatase inhibitor and is more potent than Letrozole. You don’t want to do that.

I’ve never done 40mg Nolva for PCT, I always did 20mg daily for 4-5 weeks. But I don’t know if 40mg is too much or not

I start 10mg a day for 4weeks then and then re do bloods. Much appreciated. I guess ending it now all things considered is probably a good thing

Everyone runs 40/40/20/20 and you rarely see anyone complain. @TRT_Phoenix also believes there’s no difference in gains between 250mg & 500mg. Not sure I’d disregard the tried & true method when the risk is feeling like crap for an extended period of time

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I am going to challenge you on this. Why must people wait so long (I believe you said 10-12 weeks, or 6 half lives for an EQ cycle in another thread)? His natural levels are at 14, he was just recently at 20 nmol. Why wait another 4 weeks. I can see one additional week to get below his natty levels (at which point his body is going to be good with producing some on its own).

Please provide evidence for your claim of it being best to wait for so long before PCT, or stop telling others to do it.

Just on back of this will it do much either way if I start PCT from today?

How long ago was your blood test? I am of the opinion that 3 weeks is better than 2 for a test cycle, but it is just an opinion based upon half lives of testosterone E and C.

If we say that half life is about 1 week, and you are on 500 mg a week, then after one week you are at approximately a 250 mg dose, after two weeks you are at approximately a 125 mg dose… 125 mg/wk is probably a bit above average natural production levels for most men. At 3 weeks, you are probably below what you normally produce, and your body is in a good spot to want to turn the balls back on. This is just my hypothesis.

I don’t see the need to wait for 6 half lives as @TRT_Phoenix recommends as I haven’t seen a good rational for it.

Bloods were drawn 4 days ago got results today. 3 weeks ago today is when I last pinned sust since then I been pinning that bunk gear. So my test is possibly lower now then bloods show as they are 4 days old.

Bets on when he suggests a cortisol test?

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IMO, you are good to go for PCT, and it is what I would do.

Hahaha! Thank God I was already sitting on the toilet when I read that

Would you also recommend the standard 40/40/20/20 too. Just concerns me that estrogen is hammered currently and will explain the ED ect which is reason why I tested bloods as that was reason why started to debate the new gear