T Nation

Disarming: Watch and Comment


#1

This is an excellent real world combat situation, that could have been deadly if the guy had not had the courage to react and attack. Those of you with the responsibility of teaching others life saving techniques should have your students watch and learn.

I will never crictize anyone for taking action to save lives. I do not know if the guy had any previous training, but I would like to suggest some areas of improvement:

Someone brings a gun to a campus with the intent to kill is an enemy. In the future, never leave that enemy with any ability to attack again. You will notice after he took the gun away, he ran into another room, allowing the attacker to access a second weapon. You had him down on the floor, at least stomp the shit out of face and break his combat mindset. Break his will.

You will see him come back again, after the attacker pulls a pistol, grab the attacker, and hold him in a “bear hug”. true courage.

To save yourself from violence, you must be willing to deploy violence. Please do not misunderstand, I am not crticizing the young man, just pointing out what (IMHO) other avenues could have been taken.


#2

I also commend the ‘security’ guy with using offense attack, but certainly question pepper only as the tool - when perp has already fired shotgun. Courage (or something) to attack twice and restrain.

Here is a longer video that shows a runup and it looks like he shot woman with a beanbag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGBiib9qBg


#3

Regarding the others, wow to lack of situational awareness, lack of defensive action, and reminding me that people can be less willing to defend their own lives than nearly any creature on Earth.


#4

Kudos to that guy for stepping up not once, but twice. I can understand him wanting to get the shotgun out of the attackers reach, but he should have detained him without leaving the room. When the attacker went belly down, smash his face into the ground or choke him out… something to keep him from being able to go on the offensive again.


#5

Agreed on most counts, but, depending on where this occurred there are different laws regarding use of force.

Most laws provide for adequate force to “stop the attack.” This can be a very grey area when it comes to the legal repercussions that may follow such a situation (keep in mind that there are 3 battles; 1 with your doubts and fears that may prevent you from acting effectively, 1 with the opponent(s), and 1 with the legal system).

So, had he stopped the assailant’s head in once he had wrestled the gun away, or used some other type of deadly force, he may now be facing murder charges or at least a lifetime of civil suits from the assailant’s family.

What he did have undisputed right to do though was to detain the assailant via verbal commands and the threat of using the firearm until law enforcement arrived once he had wrestled the weapon away and “cleared”/made space. Had the assailant pulled the knife, ignored his commands to stay on the ground and charged him, then he would have been justified in using deadly force (again, to “stop” the attack).


#6

Sento,
You are correct about the possible repercussions on the criminal/ civil side. I was remiss in not discussing those points. I havent been in the states for a while, so, not thinking like a citizen. Good Post.


#7

I think you can be quite forgiven for that minor slip there idaho. I live here and I don’t think like a citizen as much as I should! First thought in my head was along the lines you mentioned in the OP–incapacitate immediately.

Good reminder Sento. I like your “3 fight” breakdown, I think I will incorporate that language now. V


#8

Yeah, context and status (are you a civilian, LEO, Secret Service, etc… and encounter this situation?) definitely matter and would obviously change what might be considered “appropriate” levels of force. It can also be tough to step outside of our own shoes, level of training, and experiences and realize that what might be an appropriate response from us might be completely inappropriate for someone else.


#9

Cool. Glad I could add some useful info. Give credit for that phrasing to Walt Lysak when using it; that’s who I got it from. :blush: