T Nation

Disappointed with this Cycle

ive been on testE 500mg/w and eq 600mg/w, kickstarted with Test prop for the first 2 1/2 weeks. Also running .25mg liquidex EOD. First cycle BTW

This is the 9th week and i’m feeling pretty let down. I never really felt all the effects that everybody talks about. Sex drive stayed the same, no added sense of well-being, no real change in attitude at all.

I did gain a little over 20 lbs and from what people have been telling me I must have added a noticable amount of muscle. However i feel like the results I got were nothing spectacular. Probably due to my lack of cardio. Thats besides the point.

The part that pisses me off is that i didnt get all the psychological effects that everybody talks about. I actually started to wonder if my stuff was legit, so i went to the lab about 2 weeks ago and had some blood tests done to see where my levels were at. Now i dont have the exact numbers in front of me, because the doctor just called me yesterday and told me over the phone. But he told me my total test was in the 3000’s, and estradiol was 120 or possibly 150, i dont remember. So obviously my gear wasn’t fake.

Do any of you not respond well to test? If so, was there anything that you really did respond to?

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THE SPONGE huh. haha. Well i dont know. i guess i expected too much and its just something i had to do and find out how i reacted. But from what some people say about being “on” i guess i thought i would feel more than i did.

Is that estradiol number too high for somebody on cycle? (i realize i didnt even give you a concrete number)

Estradiol does sound high. KSman recommends low 20s pg/ml. So if your test was measured in pg/ml, then you were quite high and could have used a higher dose of AI. That would have improved libido, reduced bloat, improved morale and basically given you more satisfaction. If it was in another measure, your result should be near the bottom of the ref range for adult males. This test is frequently not accurate at labs that don’t specialize in testing male estrogen levels as it is highly geared to women. Lef.org is a good place to order this test and there are certain labs that are adept at it. PM KSman if you want the names.

It is a good idea to experiment with AI dosage until you find your sweet spot for a given level of AAS. One way is to continually increase the AI dosage slowly until too low E2 symptoms present (Achy joints, poor libido, mental fogginess) and then skip any AI dose for a couple of days and then resume dosing a little lower than what put you in a too low state. Blood tests can facilitate the process (as long as the test is accurate).

I have read KsMan’s recommendations on estrogen being in the low 20’s, but wouldnt that be for a person who isnt on a full blown cycle, rather someone on TRT. Isnt it beneficial to have some extra estrogen when you have sooo much extra test floating around.

anyway, i did have the liquidex at .5mg everyday at one point and felt worse actually. My joints started hurting and my muscles felt very tight. Maybe i was working out too hard but i think that is highly doubtful. I’ve heard of the “sweet spot” for the stuff so hopefully next time around i’ll find it

Good question. I believe as males we only require minimal estrogen for optimal results and to feel at our best. I suspect maintaing low 20s would be ideal even when testosterone level is skyrocketing.

It is a delicate balance however and too low is equally bad as too high.

The bottom line is feeling your best. Trial and error is the best way to find your sweet spot. If Adex doesn’t agree with you or you find it hard to dose, try Letro or Aromasin.

If it’s any consolation, I recently posted my latest lab results and my Estradiol appeared a little high too. It’s a miracle we do as well as we do with the limited testing resources most of us have. Best is to develop our own sense of what is ideal for us.

Jeez what did you expect? A Jekyll and Hyde phenomenon? Bushy is right, some guys merely gain the mass and act like nothing ever happened.

Besides hes on a relatively tame dose of test and EQ. With no orals.

If your running 750-1000/week with say 50mg/dbol your going to feel alot different.

Dbol is huge in the “head games” affects.

Estrogen should be kept in the low-normal range regardless if one is on cycle or not.

Go with .25mg ED and see if you notice a difference.

It is also possible that you have poor quality adex if it from a particular research company and the batch is from the second half of 2008.

I wanted to start a thread about this, but forgot. This has reminded me and i’ll just post here.

Many guys come here with all the results/gains of a cycle but are disappointed they didn’t ‘feel’ anything. This is a big misconception among new users.

I think the problem is that AAS dont ‘feel’ like much as all… I remember my first injection, it was Sust and having been a hardcore IV drug user before this, i was waiting to ‘feel’ something… but nothing came, not that day, not the next… however for me i did get gyno symptoms, increased sex drive, increased confidence - but all in the most natural and subtle way, it doesnt feel like a drug doing it, it just ‘feels’ like you. What does a ‘you’ feeling feel like?!

The feelings that SOME get (some dont) are so subtle, it is like a totally natural thing - not like coke or any drug one might take that adds confidence/wellbeing (coke being one of the most subtle recreational drugs - and many here will have tried it, thus the use for it as a comparison) as Testosterone works by a totally different mechanism than these drugs which go and secrete dopamine or seratonin or adrenaline - all mood stabilizing hormones.

The feelings of wellbeing, aggression, heightened libido are NOT all present in ALL people ALL the time.
For example, imagine there are 3 users on the same exact products, say organon deca and schering proviron. One may feel great, one may feel run-down and the third may feel nothing. Of the ones that have a ‘feeling’ this feeling is so subtle it is difficult to tell if it is caused by the drug or just your particular mood, your particular brain chemistry that month - and is why after 2-4 weeks we get alot of posters saying they dont think their gear is real as they dont ‘feel’ anything - ignoring the increases in strength and size that the drug is used for and looking for the side effects to judge legitimacy!

Often a man will gain 10-15lbs from a cycle and complain that their gear was bunk - well IMO, if one gains even just 10lbs of lean muscle in only 2 months then there is something going on, many articles suggest a gain of 1-2lbs a week is achieveable naturally… try it and see if this is the case for 8-12 weeks solid. It isnt.

It is the stories of 30lb gains (including water, everytime kids) and rampant sex drives… but these are often reported by either those who have used AAS enough (often years) to differentiate between different drugs and the different psychological effects they might have on that individual, OR those who happen to GET these particular side effects strongly (water gain and libido increase are both side effects, albeit not too unpleasant).

However as i mentioned not all will be affected by the same drugs the ame, so some may not get acne or gyno but will get increased pore size and aggression - where the next may get acne and gyno but no libido increase and MPB. The next man may get all side effects and minimal growth comparatively, and another may get no sides and maximum growth or any combination of all above.

Different drugs affect different people in different ways, this cannot be said enough, and is important to anyone who takes anything from asprin to amphetamines - as for one person asprin will ease a headache, for the next it can cause an allergic reaction… This is a fact. And is simple… add in other variables as cheap, poor quality labs producing gear, compared to human grade gear from some UG labs… and you get confusion in those inexperienced with how their bodies react to the different substances.

We take steroids (at least i do) primarily to increase muscle mass, strength and body composition. All other effects are after thoughts IMO, and count yourself lucky if you dont experience a high incidence of side effects.
Even a high libido can be a curse for many many men on AAS.

JJ

Good post, Brook. I find that test makes me more “me.” It’s hard to explain, just that slight edge in confidence/personality that makes a difference. I agree with the high libido being a curse, my girlfriend is getting worn out :wink:

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
Good post, Brook. I find that test makes me more “me.” It’s hard to explain, just that slight edge in confidence/personality that makes a difference. I agree with the high libido being a curse, my girlfriend is getting worn out ;-)[/quote]

thats why u need a couple of girlfriends !

Well I appreciate the input from everyone. Now i know what to expect the next time around. I was very lucky that i experienced ZERO negative side effects.

Its funny, along with the hormone panel that i had done, i got my cholesterol, blood sugar, etc. checked and the doctor couldnt believe how good my levels were especially after he found out i was on cycle and after i told him about my diet… eating close to a dozen eggs every morning along with lots of milk and red meat daily.

My next go round is gonna be test prop and dbol. I’m sure there’ll be more of a kick with that one

There will… Dianabol is renound for being one of the AAS that give the best ‘buzzes’ - it is the strength and size that comes, it is a great feeling, until it goes!

And Prop, when frontloaded (as i do with everything) will give results in the first week that are noticeable (water of course).

You should be happy - make sure to control your estrogen correctly and it will be a good cycle. Add in tren or NPP and you will find that is the only cycle you need for size…

:wink:

[quote]TxCASH wrote:
ive been on testE 500mg/w and eq 600mg/w, kickstarted with Test prop for the first 2 1/2 weeks. Also running .25mg liquidex EOD. First cycle BTW

This is the 9th week and i’m feeling pretty let down. I never really felt all the effects that everybody talks about. Sex drive stayed the same, no added sense of well-being, no real change in attitude at all.

I did gain a little over 20 lbs and from what people have been telling me I must have added a noticable amount of muscle. However i feel like the results I got were nothing spectacular. Probably due to my lack of cardio. Thats besides the point.

The part that pisses me off is that i didnt get all the psychological effects that everybody talks about. I actually started to wonder if my stuff was legit, so i went to the lab about 2 weeks ago and had some blood tests done to see where my levels were at. Now i dont have the exact numbers in front of me, because the doctor just called me yesterday and told me over the phone. But he told me my total test was in the 3000’s, and estradiol was 120 or possibly 150, i dont remember. So obviously my gear wasn’t fake.

Do any of you not respond well to test? If so, was there anything that you really did respond to?[/quote]

I basically have experienced (am experiencing) the same thing- no psychological sides- not a big increase in libido. I’m getting my levels checked in two weeks. I suspect my results will be similar to yours.

Yeah, smae thing happened to me on my first cycle of 583mg/w test e. My blood test at the end of cycle confirmed:

  • total test at 79.1 on ref range of 7.37-23.08
  • Free test 2059 on ref range 163-508
  • Bioavailable test 49.47 on ref range 3.94-12.31 Back on Nov. 3, 2008