T Nation

direct shoulder work...


I am going to begin a program based on CW's advises and guidelines and I am wondering if I should increase the number of sets I will do on bench presses and dips and not doing any direct shoulder work or just split bench presses or dips with overhead presses equally over my max. upper boday day ...any help would be appreciated. thx.


Most of these programs that descibe Max Upper, Max Lower, Explosive Upper, Explosive Lower, etc. are derived from Westside programs, or sparked a new line of thinking by westside. The westside program involves very little direct shoulder work when they use the repetition method. They instead focus on tricep work, and also do tricep work during extra sessions since they recover so quickly. I believe that they do not want to stress the shoulder with additional direct work.

This being said, I believe that you must understand your own goals. Their goal is to bench and squat and pull more weight than anyone in the world. Your goal might be to be able to take off your shirt at the beach without being embarrassed, or you may be honing an already rock-solid physique.

So, with your goals, whatever they are, you must decide if after heavy dips (I am assuming weighted), heavy bench, and heavy rowing, do you need any additional work on the shoulders. I believe that some direct rear delt work is used by westside occassionally, and I think it is always a great idea (ie, face pulls, rear laterals, etc). I also wonder how well your triceps will hold up after heavy dips and bench going directly in to heavy overhead presses.

If you decide you want direct shoulder work, and have no impingements, I might suggest upright rows. This will help your shoulders, traps, the whole nine. I suggest this only if you aren't doing any pulling (deadlift) work on other days. The upright rows will give you some extra volume on your shoulder, and will allow your triceps to rest... so you can torch them another way.

Just some things to think over...

Coach H


he said "advises"


i know he used incorrect grammar and misspelled a few words, but I thought I'd throw out a few thoughts... is he to blindly follow the herd? baaaaah


Seeing Coach H type "baaaaah" = ownage


it was a joke! have you ever seen "Pumping Iron?"


What he said!!!!!

Coach H, that was an AWESOME answer!!! If we took up a collection in your honor, would you stick around and share some more of your wisdom?

P.S. My phsical therapist is a CSCS. I think the guy walks on water. He's helped me correct some shoulder instability, identified and taught me how to stretch muscles that were tight and identified specific muscles that were weak (in relation to others) and needed strengthening. He's also taught me correct biomechanics.