T Nation

Dipping My Toe in the Water


#1

Hi everyone

Totally new here. I've done loads of reading and find this whole top overwhelming, so sorry for asking for repetition. There are some knowledgeable people on here who've been very generous with their time; thanks to those guys!

I have never tried any kind of steroids/test/other hormones. I'm 37 and as I get older I am losing muscle and gaining fat no matter what I do.

I would like a bit of boost to my physique (my aim is more Jeff Seid than Dorian Yates). I don't want to get huge. I also am worried about side effects.

So... is there like a watered-down version of the different cycles discussed here? And what do I need to get and when?

If this is covered somewhere else, I'd really appreciate some direction.

Thanks!


#2

Get tested for low T. If you have it, you have several options to raise it, and increased testosterone will improve your body composition, energy, mood, concentration, and libido.

If you are low, and go on TRT, and still want to try a cycle, then come back. Also, check out the Testosterone Replacement forum and read the stickies. They have a ton of good information in them.

Good luck.


#3

Hi mate. Yeah I already have. They're normal.

I've look at all the threads and people have been really helpful with lots of information; but it's all quite overwhelming. And I can't find one that is just for people looking to look like a fitness model. There's bodybuilders and people with low testosterone; but none in between... that I can find.


#4

Well, most of the dudes on here are just regular gym rats. If your T is normal, I'd see if you got something else going on, like thyroid or high estrogen. If it's all normal, then maybe. A cycle opens all kinds of cans of worms - can you get pharma grade? Where do you buy UGL? Do you trust the UGL? Is it dosed right? What about your AI's and your hcg? Is that UGL as well?

A lot of issues. Not like you can walk down to the store and get Steroids Light (Less filling!)


#5

I don't have anything else going on. It's just age.

I am aware you can't get these things in stores; like everyone else on here is.

It's not black and white... "full high dose or none"... there is surely a spectrum? I am just saying that I want to be on the more conservative side of the spectrum. Not that unreasonable a question I'd have thought.


#6

A conservative beginners dose would be 400mg/wk of testosterone enanthate or sustanon for 8 weeks, 2 week break to clear out the long acting exogenous test from your system, PCT of nolvadex 20mg/day 4weeks, then at least another month before getting bloods done to see if your natural test levels have recovered. If not keep waiting before the starting the next cycle.

Aromatase inhibitor like arimidex, 0.25mg every 2nd day during cycle to stop gyno and water retention(which is unlikely for a lot of people at a relatively low dose 400mg).
If you are getting UGL grade test avoid injectables with ethyl oelate, as a solvent. Many people don't react well to it and can get really bad post injection pain and swelling. If it doesn't agree with you will feel shit all the time whist on cycle
I would also use hcg during the cycle to make sure your balls don't atrophy.

It can take 4-6 weeks for some people to notice the results of the test, in terms of strength and lean bodyweight gains, to convince themselves that their gear is really legit. Week 4 and week 8 are good times to get your blood tested.

Potential down sides, though they should be minimised at 400mg/week are acne, especially if you were prone to it as a teenager. Balding or receding hairline, once again more of an issue if you are genetically prone to it, or are taking larger doses.
Unwanted body hair growth on back or shoulder, testosterone is quite bad for this.

The reality of cycling is you will lose most of your gains between cycles. Your sex drive will probably be low, sometimes for a couple of months before your natural test kicks back in.
Most guys eventually end up blasting at cycle doses and then cruising at low dose of 100-250mg/wk instead of cycling. When you start taking gear be prepared to have to do trt for the rest of your life, sure you might avoid it, but you won't know until you have been through it.
Don't expect miracles from one cycle.


#7

Why only 8 weeks on a long ester?

Why only a 4 week PCT?

Why no mention of HCG?

For the OP;

TRT @ 100-250mg Test C/E Per week if this is a long term decision. With HCG @ 250iu 3x per week and Adex @ 0.25mg eod.

If you want to do 1 cycle then 500mg Test E per week split into 2 x 250mg shots. 250iu HCG x3 per week and Adex @ 0.5mg eod.

PCT should be Nolvadex @ 20mg ed for 8 weeks. After waitig 2 weeks after last jab. Continue HCG up to PCT and Adex through PCT with a taper.


#8

Hey Andy, Yes plenty of people would indeed suggest 10 or 12 weeks with the first cycle. It just depends upon how well the OP responds, and how he deals with sides. 8 weeks minimum might have been a better recommendation. Op wanted conservative so I gave conservative. Its a personal choice depending upon whether you are still getting gains like increases in strength, and lean bodyweight, or whether you plateau. I personally don't extend a cycle if I plateau. Longer you are on the more suppressed your hpta is going to be.
I did mention taking HCG during cycle, just no details on a protocol.

PCT 4 weeks minimum, once again, some guys do 6 or 8 weeks depending upon length of their cycle and what they do or don't take for their cycle.
So much of this stuff comes down to how an individual reacts to the drugs.


#9

Hcg is over rated - OP is 37 and if he hasn't dropped a few juniors by now, it probably won't happen. Nut size is also over rated. It's not worth the hassle.


#10

Is this a serious comment?


#11

I like to recomend and do things properly... If people want to give or listen to shitty advice then thats up to them lol.

And judging by your pic and that remark it seems like you do both.


First Test Cycle (Please Review)
#12

Ah yes appologies there is a mention of HCG in your previous post.


#13

Yes. I realize there are opposing views, but that's how I feel about it.


#14

Whatever Andy Jones, just realize I am old enough to be your father. When you get older, then you can go all ad hominem.

And, Mr. Proper, you spelled recommend wrong. Way to pay attention to detail.


#15

Well if you are old enough to be my father then hopefully you are mature enough to realise how stupid saying the OP probs wont have kids due to being 37 and that testicular attophy is irrelevant when using steroids...


#16

Just said he is probably done having kids, and stated my opinion on Hcg, which is based on two years of TRT and having used Hcg myself.

Of course I realize opinions are like assholes; every body has one and most of them stink.

I suspect the vast majority of 37 year olds are done procreating.

No need to get personal.


#17

Maybe majority, but probably not vast majority. Maybe not even majority, tbh. A lot of couples have kids between the ages of 35-40 these days. It's really just not uncommon at all. My next door neighbors recently had their first, and they're both over 40. Plus you have a lot of guys in their 40's, or even older, who date and marry women in their late 20's/early 30's. I just don't understand your perspective here. It seems irrational to make that sort of assumption about someone. I think you're smarter than this.

Also, this isn't an 'opinion' thing. It can be represented pretty clearly by statistics. Currently, about 15 percent of first-time mothers are over the age of 35. It's reasonable to assume that the statistic for first time fathers should be higher. I think 5 percent higher would be reasonable to assume, I doubt you'd challenge me on that. Keep in mind, this is FIRST-TIME parents. So the stats for subsequent children would raise the number even more. I'm going to say that it's reasonable to assume that between 25 and 35 percent of children are born to fathers over the age of 35.

That's all I've got.


#18

So I probably should have been more clear when I wrote

My intent was to qualify my statements regarding the value of Hcg. If you are worried about fertility, then the importance of Hcg is undeniable. My statement was to qualify my judgement with respect to the value of Hcg, working on the assumption that the OP was not concerned about having kids

I am well aware that

In fact, I'm 52 and have a twelve year old and a nine year old. When I look around at events my children are involved in, I may be in better shape than most of them, but I am also a lot older than most of them, so my experience is that the vast majority are done by 35. And, in fact, you acknowledge that,

So, does 65% qualify as a vast majority? What about 75%? Probably not. Poor diction on my part.

Finally, I appreciate this,

However, if you really knew me, you probably would not have made that statement.

Bottom line is that if you plan on having kids, or you are worried about the aesthetics of your sack, Hcg is important. If you already have kids and are not worried about your ball size, you can consider going without. There are drawbacks to going without, for sure, but you do not necessarily have to take Hcg.

Out.


#19

HCG is actually also more about maintaining natural Test production post cycle rather than fertility too.... It just plays a role in the fertility department aswell.


#20

Thanks for the replies guys! This posts proves the difficulty in starting afresh; there are so many different points of view and complex consideration!!!

I appreciate all the time and input. I'm not allowed to ask about sources so I won't :see_no_evil: