T Nation

DIM Dosages and Cycling?

For those of you who use DIM, how much do you take daily? Also, do you cycle it? I have just got some DIM for natural estrogen control. I currently take REZ-V and don’t cycle it. However, I don’t think it’s as strong an anti-estrogen and also think there are many other health benefits that make it appropriate for longtime use. Not so sure about DIM for regular use though.

What brand of DIM are you taking?

(FYI I am a level 1 BSP)

Bueller? Bueller?

Why is it that no one on these forums can answer supplement quetions or provide anything but the most rudimentary nutritional info anymore?

Guess I’ll have to ask Thibs.

[quote]ksommer wrote:
What brand of DIM are you taking?

(FYI I am a level 1 BSP)[/quote]

Puritans Pride.

My problem with looking up dosages on PubMed studies, etc, is that they tend to look at acute Rx timeframes at ultra high (read: not financially feasible) dosages and short term effects, not toxicity over long term with such high dosages.

Also, if you consider the BSA conversion factor for calculating the Human Equivalent Dose (HED) of a dose used for, say, a mouse, you end up with something ridiculously high. Again, it’s just not sustainable if you plan on taking the supplement for more than 4 weeks. Way too cost prohibitive.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
My problem with looking up dosages on PubMed studies, etc, is that they tend to look at acute Rx timeframes at ultra high (read: not financially feasible) dosages and short term effects, not toxicity over long term with such high dosages.

Also, if you consider the BSA conversion factor for calculating the Human Equivalent Dose (HED) of a dose used for, say, a mouse, you end up with something ridiculously high. Again, it’s just not sustainable if you plan on taking the supplement for more than 4 weeks. Way too cost prohibitive.[/quote]

I’d agree. I’m not really looking for PubMed studies though…

More what practices people have used and been happy with.

I only have experience using Poliquin’s brand. Basically, I’d use a bottle, then switch to a different estrogen modulator for a bottle, then switch again, then go back to DIM.

[quote]ksommer wrote:
I only have experience using Poliquin’s brand. Basically, I’d use a bottle, then switch to a different estrogen modulator for a bottle, then switch again, then go back to DIM.[/quote]

Thanks for your input.

[quote]ksommer wrote:
I only have experience using Poliquin’s brand. Basically, I’d use a bottle, then switch to a different estrogen modulator for a bottle, then switch again, then go back to DIM.[/quote]

What are some examples of estrogen modulators besides DIM?

High dose green tea extract has multiple benefits in addition to helping detoxify estrogens - resveratrol from grapes and wine is also very easy to get by drinking 1-2 bottles of red wine per week (which is 1-2 glasses per night… so moderate consumption).

Flax seed hulls can also change the ratio of which estrogen metabolites you carry.

Are flax seed hulls the same as milled flax seeds?

By what mechanism do flax seed hulls alter estrogen metabolism? If it is related to the Omega-3 content of flax seeds, can I substitute chia seeds for flax seed hulls to achieve the same effect?

Also, what dosage of EGCG are we looking at for this effect?

Thanks for your input, ksommer.

Yes, they are the same, but it is always better to use freshly ground seeds - flax oil is known for going rancid quickly.

It isn’t related to the omega-3, that’s just a side benefit. The benefits are actually related to the lignans, which are phytoestrogens, or fake estrogens.

If you have poor estrogen metabolism from toxic environment or for whatever reason, the lignans in flax can compete with the harmful estrogens at the receptor site. After the estrogens have been metabolized into waste, the fiber in the flax can help it be removed from the body.

I suppose it would depend on the quality of the supplement you are using or the quality of tea, but I’ve seen recommended usage that would be the equivalent of 24 cups of green tea per day.

[quote]ksommer wrote:
Yes, they are the same, but it is always better to use freshly ground seeds - flax oil is known for going rancid quickly.

It isn’t related to the omega-3, that’s just a side benefit. The benefits are actually related to the lignans, which are phytoestrogens, or fake estrogens.

If you have poor estrogen metabolism from toxic environment or for whatever reason, the lignans in flax can compete with the harmful estrogens at the receptor site. After the estrogens have been metabolized into waste, the fiber in the flax can help it be removed from the body.

I suppose it would depend on the quality of the supplement you are using or the quality of tea, but I’ve seen recommended usage that would be the equivalent of 24 cups of green tea per day.
[/quote]

Yup. But some green tea extracts have extremly high amounts of EGCG. And you don’t need much more than a few pills.

Good EGCG brand, then… ?

I will look into EGCG. I have always been interested in it but never really picked any up.