Difficulty Controlling E2

So my math shows me at 14:1 ratio. When everyone says to me to wait another four weeks, is it possible my ratio will improve naturally?

@onelove4uk
I do 200mg/week doing daily injections of 28.6mg. A majority of people are totally fine doing once or twice a week injections. (not counting dose changes from 220mg down to 100 and up to 200mg and everything in between) I started with once a week, then twice a week, EOD, daily sub-q, back to EOD, and finally daily IM. I feel best at daily whether sub-q or IM.

@onelove4uk

Yes. That’s why people say don’t get blood work until you’ve been on a protocol at least 6 weeks.

Unfortunately that doesn’t make me feel better about all this. A lot of people in this forum, including me, are tinkering with things and creating protocols that aren’t studied very well yet. For example, like how it’s supposed to be for IM use only. I don’t think there’s a ton of research on subcutaneous injections probably because it’s not approved. That doesn’t mean subcutaneous is bad necessarily…it’s just not well researched. The majority of people in here that may be above 34 in E2…how long have they been doing this. I’m not sure there’s long term studies to show if the majority of people here will be okay 30 years from now. Like you, I’m in my 30s. Unfortunately the current research is lacking and many urologists seem to understand less than most the people in this forum. So to summarize, I have no idea where to go from here but anything at this point is better than the shit I was feeling for years before I started TRT, and hopefully it all works out long term. Really appreciate all your input! And damn that’s a lot of different injection protocols you’ve been through!

Well, he also says you can safely inject 600mg of test a week with no harm as long as you keep the E down. I like how he thinks!

@onelove4uk
Read this. Physiolojik is a very respected endo that posted here until his TRT practice and family got too big and he didn’t have time to post often anymore. This should help you

To answer your question, yes take half Arimidex each day of your shot and have bloods checked after 6 weeks of this protocol to see where you are. Everyone is going to be different.

I was injecting 200 mg split Monday and Thursday. Half a pill of Arimidex m/w/f. My E was at 48. I switched to injecting m/w/f and will see where i’m at. I will then adjust depending on the numbers.

Also, each of these people use other things in addition. That plays a part in the equation along with body composition and diet.

Women with breast cancer are treated with aromatase inhibitors at a level that takes their estrogen down to zero. They still die younger, but not from breast cancer, from heart disease.

Women do not have heart attacks at rates comparable to men. That is, until they hit 55-60, then they start catching up. Could that be because they’ve hit menopause and have lost their estrogen?

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@theinneroh thanks for the specifics and answering my question

@dextermorgan that was a very long but very interesting read. Thanks for posting it.

I guess another thing I’ve been wondering about is dosages. I’ve seen people in here take anywhere from less than 100mg/week to 200mg/week. How do people know where they should be? Based on how they feel? Are people trying one dose for 6-8 weeks and then increasing or decreasing the T if they need to? Is weight correlated at all? For example I’m 155 pounds…but if I was 250 pounds, would I have been started on something higher than 100mg/week?

Weight really isn’t a factor. If you’re a 270lb 10% bodyfat bodybuilder then you may need higher doses to retain all of that muscle but for strictly TRT it isn’t that much of a factor. If I were just starting TRT I would start at 140mg (I started at 220mg and had issues) and wait 6 six weeks and get blood work to see where that puts me. I would take the labs and how I feel and decide if I need to increase or decrease dose. Many would say to start even lower like 120mg and they are probably right. You are basically looking for the lowest dose that relieves pre-trt symptoms but also doesn’t cause negative side effects. I would tell myself to be patient because at 4 weeks I’m not going to feel ideal and want to change shit because “I know my body” but if I just wait another couple weeks there’s a good chance I’ll feel much better. It’s hard because our generation 20’s & 30’s want to take a pill and immediately be healed but TRT usually doesn’t go that way.

I would also inject twice a week (every 3.5 days). It’s debatable but I think it’s a good compromise for injection frequency.

Something I wish I did but was too lazy is to keep a log of how you’re feeling each week and any noticeable improvement or symptoms you experience and when. This can help you tremendously when trying to figure out what’s going on. Especially when you come here to ask for help. (I know you likely know much of what I’ve stated here since you are already on TRT although not dialed in)

No studies show any harm of estrogen, if combined with high testosterone. If some doctor says to me something like keeping a hormone in a magical range I would run away from him with 200km/h.

I know a lot of people on TRT with e2 above 80 and they do fine. Long before I learn anything about TRT but I was very fat I had 50 e2 and I was feeling awesome, great libido and so on but freee testosterone was a but above average

Unfortunately my doctor, or should I say nurse, isn’t proactive at all about anything. Doesn’t say where I should be, doesn’t call about labs, basically does nothing and probably knows nothing.

@dextermorgan I’m not even sure how I could do 120 or 140mg a week since I was prescribed 200mg vials for every 2 weeks. I don’t think this nurse is very flexible and would prescribe more but I haven’t tried. Anyways I was just curious about the origins of starting points for different people…I think I feel pretty good with the dose I’m on (energy is much better than pre-TRT, I don’t need energy drinks any more). I don’t have libido but I’ll give it more time and see how things feel before considering a change in dose. I agree that I’d want the minimum needed to feel right. I’m also worried that with more T comes more E2

@onelove4uk

If somebody can give you a fixed number where you should be, run away from him

That much arimidex crushed my e2 to below readable levels. If he absolutely has to take arimidex he should start with only 1/4 of a pill IMO. As I said earlier though he just stopped the AI 4 weeks ago that had crushed his E2 and his body is still adjusting from the change. It may come down on its own if given the time. If it doesn’t then he has other options, like injection frequency, that may help rather than adding another drug. An AI IMO should only be used as a last resort.

He can go with a smaller dosage. He just needs to stick with something for a period of time and then evaluate the situation.

Everyone is different. I also take hcg, so not sure how much that matters. I’m also 6’5” 220 lbs, not sure if that matters either.

0.25 mg 2X a week would probably crash me. If I needed to take it, I would dissolve it in vodka at a known concentration, then I would dose at about 0.1 mg per dose.

Yeah for sure he possibly could go with a lower dosage. Not sure what his free t is, and with lower SHBG may very well be higher just as his E2 is. Which would give room to move. Based on his total t being 696 which for some is still too low I was thinking frequency instead, so smaller injections but same total amount. I agree he shouldn’t change anything for a month though after labs are taken. That includes taking an AI.

If your E2 is still higher with 1.5mg of AI, that tells me that the HCG is doing a good job at stimulating your balls. From what I understand an AI won’t stop aromatization there

It does me as well. I was saying 0.25 once a week and that would be the max I would recommend until you knew how it affected you. I would rather him try anything other than an AI though.

I am not sure if placebo, or possibly caused by other things (I can’t think of any other changes), but it seems that after stopping AI, I came out of depression, and anxiety. Again, not sure if it could have been something else, but I have noticed an improvement in mood after stopping.

I have looked up the sides of anastrozal, and depression is a side. Might come from low E2 not the AI, but I am feeling better.

Thought everyone was crazy with the no AI stuff, but I was down for a couple months, and figured other people say dropping the AI made them feel better, so I gave it a try.

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I did not see a large difference but definitely was an improvement. I can’t neccesarily put it on stopping the AI though as I also moved from cream to injections at the same time.