T Nation

Differing Massive eating Regimens

Okay, I’ve been using massive eating for a few months now to great results. I have been having a P+F meal in the morning, then Pre-and Post workout drinks, then 2 P+C meals following over 5 hours, then 2 more P+F meals then a P+F drink before bed. But this morning i was jsut reading through some back issures of Appetite for Construction and the layout by Berardi in issue 167is different, something he calls the ‘taper method’ where he describes 2 P+C meals BEFORE the workout, then P+F for hours following. What’s the deal? has anyone done it this way, and if so what were your results?

Please post and give me some of your meal schedules pre and post workout becuse clearly there’s a few ways of arranging the meal timing. Thanks.

I’m trying the massive eating approach as much as possible–due to work, my workout is late in the day–so here are my daily meals:

breakfast: p/c
morning snack: p/f
lunch: p/f
pre-workout: p/c
post-workout: p/c
late snack: p/c
bedtime: p/f

all for about 4500 calories a day–have gained 5 pounds in 4.5 weeks

would like to hear how others are doing this

Mayfield, your plan is solid as is. Whlcrow’s plan is another good example. JB often gave the option of the Taper method, but also was not hesitant to admit that it will not lead to as quick or as efficient results (particularly in fat loss). The Taper method was more of an option for days when you’re not training.

I think that the Taper method would be less than desirable due to the constant shift from P+C to P+F. There’s too much risk of ultimately combining C and F, as you run into the dilemma of carbs and fats being in the blood at some time, together.

Stick to what you’re doing. If you want to add more carbs, then make that first meal P+C, or the third meal post-training P+C.

1lb per 1 week? doesn’t seem right, probably mostly water or fat? do you messure bf%? do you look bigger/fatter?

Yeah, I hear what you’re saying, and that’s how i’d do it to if I worked out in the evening, but what’s with the P+F meal an hour after the post-workout drink. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

wlfcrow - how do you arrange your meals on non workout days? Do you have 3 P+C followed by 3 P+F or do you alternate them?

mdog: about the 5 lbs in 4.5 weeks, 4-AD-EC is involved, along with Tribex & M

Mayfield, on non-workout days, the day goes like this:

BF: p/c
morning snack: p/f
lunch: p/c
afternoon snack: p/f
dinner: p/f
bedtime: p/f

probably should have more carbs in there, but I know my body performs better (from trail and error) on higher protein and fat intake–too many carbs and I retain a lot of water

I use ALA twice a day (500 mg each), and use fish oil caps (about 20 a day) and flax oil (2 tbsp a day)–but I think I still have poor insulin sensitivity (most of my family has Type II diabetes)

Mayfield…I think that may have been a misprint, as I remember there being some contradiction or a type-error that JB addressed here on the forum.

That said, following up Surge or a Surge-like concoction with a protein and fat meal within an hour is not advisable. I would allow at least two hours between the highly insulinemic post-workout drink and a P+F. However, this may result in greater catabolism than is avoided, and now I’m delving into a whole different issue.

Bottom line, follow-up Surge with a P+C meal for best results.

Thanks, Timbo. That’s makes sense to me. I’m still arguing back and forth in my mind about whether to alternate the P+F/p+C meals b/c like you say you do run the risk of ultimately combining the F+C. But I wonder if the fats are utilized better if they spread out more gradually throughout the day. Anybody know?

Hey Timbo (or whoever else has an opinion on this matter), you brought up an issue that I’ve been wrasslin’ with as of late.

Ok, so say someone is on a diet, T-dawg 2 for instance, than only includes 2 P+C meals throughout the day (this includes post workout Surge as one of the meals). Would it be best to have the other P+C meal for breakfast, then wait 2 hours or so after training/Surging to have a P+C meal, or have the other P+C meal 1-1.5 hours after training, making breakfast P+F? Option #1 seems to be the frequent recomendation, but each plan has its drawbacks. Just wondering what you think.

Drex…In my mind and logic, it seems to be a better plan to consume the one allotted P+C meal following the Surge. While I agree that when on a low-carb diet–or any diet for that matter–that consuming a good chunk of carbs in the morning is beneficial and optimal, hear me out.

After consuming a high GI/II carb/protein drink like Surge, you really should be getting more nutrients into your system within the next 60-90 minutes, depending on the serving size. That said, insulin is still going to be kickin’ and your body is going to be in a sugar-burning mode, so any fat that you bring in at this second meal is likely just going to be stored as bodyfat. So I would think that having your P+C meal an hour or so after Surge would be optimal in that it would allow blood sugar levels and insulin to stabilize.

Now if you were to choose the option of carbs for the first meal of the day, then I would probably advise a protein and fibrous veggie meal following the Surge, and then a regular P+F meal two to three hours later.

Timbo, the way you describe it (with P+F in morn) with P+C meal after surge). That is the Berardi has his example meal plan set up in ‘reader mail’ , but in what i beleive was the ‘carb roundtable’ Dr.Lowry says that by having your P+F meal in the morning you run the risk of glucose intolerance later on in the day for P+C meals. Any thoughts?

Mayfield: I’d have to check out the Roundtable to see if Dr. Lowry gives any physiological basis for it. Maybe he’ll even jump in here. I really don’t see a problem with it, though. Again, you’re looking at taking in the carbs post-workout, so I really see no problem with glucose intolerance or insulin insensitivity. Another benefit of the P+F first thing in the morning is that you won’t interrupt the fat-burning state you’ve established by not eating over 7-8 hours. Just another thought to consider.

That’s very true, Timbo. I also though it made sense b/c Berardi says you should have a P+F meal 60-90min before the workout and since I train in the monrings I kind of figured this would be the best way to go.

As far as Dr.Lowry’s evidence on glucose intolerance, I don’t think he went into any detail as to the mechanisms involved. But maybe he will be so kind as to enlighen us.

Thanks for you thoughts Timbo.