I ran 900mg a week of EQ along with 500 test and had no issue. I didn’t get my E tested but for me running 500 test would require prob 30-40mg/wk of aromison and I didn’t take any and felt great. Donated blood once during the cycle and hemoglobin was where it normally is. Just did post cycle bloods and all is good. Obviously your experience could be different.
Wonder if there’s some biking forums like this that are also annon so ppl can talk freely. You get the BBing or lifting side here; maybe you’d get the performance side there. Idk.
Stims would be anything to amp the brain/heart up for endurance. Clen maybe, phentermine, all in short duration of course. You’ve got high RBC anyway, maybe look at ways to maximize the oxygen content of each? Just spitballing now cos I’m curious lol
Didn’t Germany use Tbol for almost every sport for awhile. Additionally, it seems to be one of the drugs UFC fighters get busted for. Might be something to look into.
Yeah Turinabol is also on my curious list- from what I read though its often just under dosed dbol from a lot of sources.
If I had a way of purchasing and testing it I’d be interested in trying some!
@roadie I have been a member here for 3-4 years and no one does what you do. Everyone in the Pharma forum pushes heavyweights around to look better or be stronger. Your goals is not theirs I can’t believe they are offering advice on something they have no clue about. People recommending you dump blood when you need an HCT of 50% or more as a roadie? This is not the forum for you. I love these guys but as a Mtn Biker that rides in Colorado (8000ft) they have not clue or advice you should take.
@hrdlvn yeah thanks for that- it is why I felt I needed to explain to Chris my training is actually well on point.
What you guys can really help with is things like what I asked- how long can you safely run 300 or 500 etc.
Sides I’m likely to see if I use EQ.
This forum has been amazing (the TRT board), to get my TRT protocal dialled in and I’m extremely grateful for all the hormone advice I’ve had from here.
This myth needs to die. Donate because you want to help others. It’s a good thing to do. But do not for a second think that it’s doing anything for you beyond a period of about two weeks. If you’re still doing the thing that makes your HCT go up it will continue to go up immediately after a donation. It’s a bandaid, nothing more.
Also, HCT at 50 is not anywhere near a level that should cause concern. That’s lower than I was prior to starting trt.
Hct by itself is incomplete predictor of whole blood viscosity. You also need to understand plasma viscosity, which is driven by inflammation. So as I’ve reviewed, two guys with Hct of 50 could have very different whole blood viscosities. Blanket statements about xx Hct being harmless and so forth make no sense without understanding the other moving parts. Add on top of this the cardiovascular status of the patient and other health considerations like BP, NO capacity, endothelial function, and it becomes pretty clear that blanket statements regarding Hct levels are asinine (EDIT: maybe that’s too harsh. “Well-meaning but come up short” perhaps a better more compassionate description).
What are the inflammation levels of this particular person?
Please give me a detailed description of this person’s BP, NO capacity, cardiovascular status, and endothelial function.
If you don’t have those (you don’t) then you’re stuck with making some suppositions based on the balance of probabilities. An avid cyclist who gets regular blood work and presumably eats well is unlikely to be at any risk with an HCT that is within multiple different lab ranges. Your alarmism is at once admirable and crushingly tedious. If life adhered to study results we’d all behave very differently. But of course it doesn’t, because life is lived outside of the laboratory.
Okay. When you said “I don’t lift, I ride bikes”, I took that to mean you don’t lift and it’s why I made my comment. Guess there was a miscommunication. If you do have a well-designed S&C program in place, that’s great.
Making minor adjustments to your weight training to address your immediate goals (leg muscle growth) will still have a bigger impact than changing your test dose without changing your training. As I said, back squats aren’t necessary and likely aren’t the most efficient tool for your goal.
Most people on here are experienced lifters and/or trainers who understand how to set up a training plan for size, strength, and power while abiding by weight classes.
Not to get too Zen, but sometimes the answer one needs doesn’t come from the question one asks.
Anyhow, not trying to distract from the info you’re getting. Just raising a point. A thread about your training, however boring it may be, would still be a good idea.
I personally don’t think so. I gain no faster on 500 than I do 300. And I just feel shitty on 500.
Up to 600/wk for 20 weeks has been proven safe in studies.
Reading through everyone else’s replies, here are my .02……
Skip the donating blood to lower HCT. lowering hematocrit will hurt performance of an endurance athlete.
I think 300 will suit your goals better than 500. 500 will add more unusable weight, and cycling performance will suffer accordingly.
Assuming all other recovery variables are optimized (sleep, nutrition, soft tissue work) I’d try 300 for 20 weeks and milk it dry. I’m fairly confident you will see signifcant performance enhancement on 300 vice your normal 175.
Nothing meaningful to add. This thread reminds me of Icarus. I can’t remember. Did he outline his protocol? He went from 14th to hanging with the best in the world till his derailleur broke.
So as you state you know really nothing of the OP’s health status but you are confident making the statement above?
Post up that Hct reference range you mentioned showing high end at 60 when you get the chance. I’d definitely love to see that.
Careful getting too confident, yeah most don’t live in the lab but sometimes things don’t turn out like we think they will turn out. Some margin of error is always wise.
Balance of probabilities.
Why did you choose 60? If we’re pulling arbitrary numbers out of the sky why not go with something more fun like 58 or 57.55? Why 60? OP is at 51 which is well within multiple different lab ranges.
Anyway, ask you you shall receive:
I didn’t pull an arbitrary number. It was what you shared in a previous thread:
And I mentioned that type of reference range was suited toward a newborn, not an adult male:
Perhaps they screwed up your age otherwise the range provided makes little sense. Thanks for sharing!
Well there you go @roadie, a new AAS/TRT population adjusted reference range for Hct. Hct of 55 or even 59, no worries. You’re in range Neal Rouzier approved!
Just for the record giving blood drops my hematocrit about 3% and it takes about 16 weeks to get back to 50%. Thats on 175mg shot eod.
Its currently 51%
NHS range runs up to 54% on labs for some reason though- although they’re pretty bad for being generic and not looking at age of patient!
UCI benches pro-riders on tours who’s blood work comes back above 50% for safety reasons based on EPO related deaths in the past. Thats enough reason for me to know I don’t want it much over 50!
Thanks for sharing your info.
Funny story. I’ve had two “TRT” Providers now who used to be cardiovascular surgeons. Were they great ones? I don’t know. Both will give you nandrolone, oxandrolone, stanozolol for brief stints. Neither will continue treatment if your Hct goes above 51%.
I’ve done my best to lay out in scientific detail why this is the case and why you shouldn’t try to push it as you get older. Blood vessel compliance, NO generation can change quite a bit with age. Take care!
one thing i would like to add that ppl always tend to forget is that steroids are also mainly used for recovery time …the difference between two athletes one on gear and one off alot of it has to do with recovery and able to crush another workout as the guy not on gear may need 2-3 days off a week
Age was correct. Prior lab they used had a range that topped out at 54 (which, look I went to public school so forgive me, but that’s still above 51, yes?). Current doctor uses a lab that’s shown two ranges, one to 47 (which I have literally never been that low in my life) and one to 51. I think we all agree that 60 is stupid, but of course that was never what this was about.
You ever checked for hemochromatosis? My pre TRT baseline not that high but I’m a heterozygous carrier.
Wow, those are quite a range of upper ref ranges…47, 54 and 60. You surprised me with the 60 (actually having a lab print that).
Labcorp and Quest are 50.4/51. Mayo and Arup are 48.6 and 53 respectively. So for similar CBC machines usually 51 or 53 about the top of ref range.
You are right it wasn’t about 60 but I did want to understand how that may be shaping your thinking. OP is at 51 and thinking about upping the dose. That may put him up there a bit. Justin Saya won’t let his patients past 53.
@roadie, I also mentioned my experience in another thread with aspirin which lowered my Hct. You may want to check that out. I tried 325 mg/day which lowered Hct by 5 pts after a few months.
@iron_yuppie we can agree to disagree, if I am at 51 and planning to double the dose, I’m going pay attention to what that could do. Especially since bicycling is known to acutely raise Hct post exercise (I’ll see if I can find that study).
And no nothing wrong with public school, that’s where I clocked my time.
Take care. I’ll be honest, I don’t have the energy to give you one of my Danny Bossa style debates. Covid has beat my ass now for 10 days. I’d recommend it to no one .